Jumped and mugged last night - Random reflections

When a number of people are ganging up they don't attack one at a time, like in a Chuck Norris film. Every time you open your guard to strike one person, you are opening up to all of them. In straight up boxing, every strike is an opening to get hit in the head. So with multiple attackers that risk multiplies too. So striking back against a whole crew of people might work in a given moment, but many times it will likely backfire.

And I totally agree with trying to get away, but with your back to the wall, your best bet is actually to tire out your opponents until they make a mistake and you make your move, whether it's a counter or burning shoe rubber.

Turtling (in the boxing sense) conserves energy, enables smarter more calculated strikes, and most of all keeps your most important parts protected. It's considered by many to be the best defense/offensively balance style for that reason.

 

Id never heard of Philly shell etc being called a turtle guard either, so I guess the lesson I've learnt here is that I should copy Mr Rodgers and not Boris johnson and be careful with my language.

"State the idea you wish to express as clearly as possible, and in terms preschoolers can understand.” Example: It is dangerous to play in the street."

Mr. Rogers' Nine Rules for Speaking to Children (1977) | Open Culture

 

Weird, the phrase is used in boxing articles and by commentators and coaches all the time. I didn't think it would be so controversial. But yeah... I did not mean getting down on all fours and letting a beating rain down. I think we are all in agreement that would be bad advice. Wow.

Example of the phrase in use:

The Incomparable Floyd Mayweather Jr.

 

that bit of the altercation I do remember my imagination of landing a sweet ippon seonage on one of them didn't work out so well

This probably also depends on the attacker, I was fortunate (or not maybe?) that my attackers were not coordinated in their attack, which allowed me to strike back in the situations I did without any serious damage.

that's what I used in most of my situations, when standing worked well enough, also used a lot of elbows from that position, which I'm happy to say landed nicely on a few of the rascals.
But yeah, back to the wall or in a corner sucks

 

Speaking of language barriers, what the heck is a "snakeboard".

 

And I say again...that categorically goes against everything actual world class self defence instructors advocate.
The only people that are pushing a "wait for them to tire out" tactic are you and the Gracie's (because they are pushing their ground fighting agenda).
Literally everyone else I can think of (and mentioned before) espouses "end it fast and end it now". Marc McYoung's take on physical self protection is three words. Him. Down. Now.

The longer it goes on the more chance you have of being taken out or badly damaged. The more damage you accrue the harder you will find it to fight back. The more likely more people are to get involved (bystanders, etc). Many people attacked with weapons only knew a weapon was in play after the fact when they saw the damage. In-fight all they felt were punches.

 

best video I could find to illustrate - for tricks we would strap ourselves to it and was out on it a lot, probably why I ended up crossing paths with such unsavory types so often.

 

And not all the Gracie's by any stretch of the imagination, who thinks Ralph or Renzo preach that!

 

So, Southpaw should have ended it faster. He didn't "him. Down. Now." fast enough. Got it.

Boy, some of the "self defense" teachers you are promoting are full of it. "Him. Down. Now.", Really???

You left out Floyd Mayweather Sr by the way, in addition to me and the Gracies. I'll take them over your "end it now" nonsense any day. Good Lord, it's all academic with you isn't it.

 

Seriously, when did you start listening to MA writer's opinions on physical self defense instead of professional fighters and trainers? What a mistake.

 

This might be a good time to point out that BJJ is generally useless against multiple attackers.

Or is someone going to start arguing for rapidly armlocking or choking out each opponent "him down now" style, until you can make a clean getaway.

 

I'm very into horse's for courses. Knowing what your goal is and training accordingly.
Listening and learning from people that teach self defence for self defence knowledge and listening to fighters and trainers for sport martial arts or competition knowledge. And not mistaking one for the other.
And no that doesn't mean I don't rate sport martial artists for real self defence or denigrate sort martial artists.
I'll take Geoff T's or Iain Abernethy's advice on what self defence is all about over Mayweather Snr all day.

 

Why? Just grab hold of one of your attackers, pull guard, use him as a shield and wait for everyone else to get tired. Then when you spot an opening armbar everyone.

 

Well to each his own but the Mayweathers have been in and won more fights in their day than all the people you've listed added together, especially Geoff Thompson and Ian Abernathy.

"Self defense" is best taken with a grain of salt, I don't care who preaches it. They won't be there for your fight and you might find that every single thing they advised was a bad idea in your specific situation.

"Him. Down. Now." For example sounds just like what Moltke said about how long well thought out plans actually survive encounters with the enemy.

 

Whilst you have some point, real life is a bit more nuonced then that.

A) Renzo is known for beating up multiples for fun

B) Ralph is known for recently KOing a bigwig BJJ guy before the fight even started.

C) the better I am at controling the clinch and ground means I'm not going to tied up with one attacker, this frees me up to strike and run.

 

Do you understand what an aphorism is?

 

Glad to see some levity. Sarcasm beats "your debate style smells of elderberries" every time.

 

Yes and that's why I view him.down.now as relatively useless advice compared to, say, distance and de-escalation.

As if the opponents aren't thinking the same thing.

"Kick. His. Butt".

Shelling up and tiring out your attacker(s) is great advice. Hell, most of my own sparring style is devoted to making the other guy sweat and breathe harder than me. I prefer not to get hit but when I do, I make it as expensive as possible. It works. Throwing punches is costly. Make them more costly with strong defense and carefully chosen offense.

Call me me a conservative striker I guess, but it's worked for me. Earns billions for others against some of the greatest fighters in world history.

 

I'd love to see videos of Renzo doing that. They'd be germane to this thread. But is it GJJ or more Vale Tudo style...I'm guessing the latter.

Going to the ground fighting multiple people is a bad idea. I hope we can all agree...don't do that unless everyone else standing around is just recording with a camera. Then you might not get a boot in your head.

 

So intrinsic to the idea of "him down now" are the ideas of ending an altercation quickly (ASAP), making sure your attacker is in a compromised position, a standing attacker is always a danger, try not to engage in a reciprocal back and forth "fight" and above all don't just cover up to reduce damage and hope he gets tired beating on you.
It's intended as a pithy memorable phrase that underpins concepts and ideas.

In social violence there can be a variety of motivations. Intimidation, "the buzz", crime, etc.