Judo vs. BJJ

Discussion in 'Judo' started by Xaiyn, Sep 14, 2005.

  1. Xaiyn

    Xaiyn New Member

    Allright, I just wanna hear some opinions about these issures. Which MA do you guys think that is more effective on the street; BJJ or Judo?

    What are the strenghts and weaknesses of Judo against BJJ and do you guys think taking both Judo and BJJ would be effective since one is more takedowns oriented and the other is groundfighting oriented, or would sticking with only one grappling MA would be enough?
  2. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    BJJ by heel hook!

    (Heh, even though this is a sensible vs thread I couldnt resist, sorry :eek: )

    I reckon trainning both is probably not a bad idea, I've started both recently and hope to continue them. I say I've started them both, what I mean is I do Jitsu with Judo randori as it's form of sparring and I've done MMA with BJJ for it's groundwork.

    Anyway, I think that the no-gi stuff in BJJ is vital for self defence BUT I think that a lot of the judo stuff is still highly applicable as well and can give you a real edge over an opponent in a SD situation.

    Just a newbie to boths opinion though.
  3. Linguo

    Linguo Valued Member

    If you have the opportunity to do both, do both. They compliment each other nicely. Despite the supposed rivalry that exist between the two, many people cross train in both. Both would be effective for self-defense as both regularly train against live opponents.
  4. aml01_ph

    aml01_ph Urrgggh...

    The advantage of BJJ over Judo is that grappling is more straightforward (just get them down) and hence focus more on techniques that can be applied while off the feet. Judo's advantage over BJJ is that they generally have more options with their repertoire of techniques.

    But as we have seen, it all comes down on how a good a person is.
  5. Teryan

    Teryan Valued Member

    I'd say Judo main advantage is that it does not half to go to the ground. Working 50% throws 50% ground work, you can always throw some one and walk away, and if it does go to the ground your not scrwewed.
  6. Goju

    Goju Yellow Belt

    I won't even get into which is better, but Judo throws are really cool, Judo training is an excellent compliment to BJJ and vice-versa.
  7. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    It's been said many times, but it depends more on the individual than the style.

    I've never done BJJ, but I focus on taking things to the ground and going for a submission, partly because of my wrestling background and partly because I'm better on the ground than I am standing up (whereas most of my opponents are the opposite). The vast majority of judokas focus more on winning by a throw than I do. Which is more useful in a streetfight depends on a number of variables. I would assume the same is just as true when comparing practitioners of two different styles.
  8. Xaiyn

    Xaiyn New Member

    Nice posts, I wasnt asking which style is better, just your opinion about the merits of both styles. I am planning to take both if I have the time (coz I am also gonna take WC) but if I cant arrange it, I looks like I will only take Judo.
    Because it seems to me takedowns are more useful in a real fight, than groundfighting and you learn some groundfighting in Judo also if it comes to that. But I would definitely love to take BJJ as well and become a sick grappler :)
  9. TheMightyMcClaw

    TheMightyMcClaw Dashing Space Pirate

    First of all, I'd like to point out that Judo and BJJ are very, very similar.

    Second, from the "self-defense" applications of BJJ I've seen (mostly in the "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Street Defense" videos), it relies much more on stand-up grappling and "judoesque" throws than the groundfighting you usually associate with Brazilian Jiujitsu. Thus, for self defense purposes, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu starts looking more like Judo than it does for competitive purposes.
    Make of it what you will.
  10. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    In the greatest of generalities (is that even a word? :confused: ) I'd go with Judo, due to the 'superior' standup training + groundwork.
  11. TsukinoKage

    TsukinoKage New Member

    Depends on whether you'd rather be confident in stand-up grappling and being able to off-balance and throw your opponent with a large variety of techniques or if you want to be a good groundfighter, with great positioning and submission techniques on the ground.

    I would take both if I could.
  12. Juego Todo

    Juego Todo Stay thirsty, my friends.

    I'm just echoing everybody's sentiments. Both have their merits. One isn't necessarily better than the other. It all comes down to who can get in their best finishing move first. On any given day, it's 50/50 as to who would win.

    Here are just a couple of very, VERY basic, well-known pros/cons to both (there are many more as with any art, but these are just some simple examples):

    Some Judo pros:
    -the wide array of throws that could decidedly end a confrontation on concrete;
    -good stand-up control.

    Some Judo cons:
    -many throws are reliant on gripping so, unless a judoka has trained both with and without a gi, his repertoire is slightly reduced (but really only a couple of techniques would be needed, not every Judo technique would ever be used);
    -no lower-body submissions applied on opponent.

    Some GJJ/BJJ pros:
    -total body submissions;
    -gi & no-gi training, preparing fighters for both situations.

    Some GJJ/BJJ cons:
    -stand-up control is very minimal, if non-existent, as the focus tends to be to go to the ground;
    -some attacks/defences start with grabbing the opponent, then sacrificing your back by slamming it to the ground while taking your opponent down which, if on a grappling mat, would work but it wouldn't really be recommended when fighting in the street on concrete.

    Heck, eventually study both and broaden your horizons and skills. They have the same roots, anyway.
  13. Humblebee

    Humblebee PaciFIST's evil twin

    and maybe boxing or muay thai instead of wc
  14. Nightstrike

    Nightstrike MMA Nerd

    Judo is supurior to BJJ in takedowns and the clinch(throws)
    BJJ often seems to be supuriour to judo in ground work, but a judo guy who cross trains in other arts a bit seems to do just fine.
  15. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    Well, couldn't BJJ guys cross-train too?
  16. LiaoRouxin

    LiaoRouxin Valued Member

    Different sides of the same coin really. The standup of the average Judo player is much superior to that of the average BJJ player, especially now that Sambo style takedowns are being used in Judo to complement the throws. The ground work of BJJ is more far advanced than in Judo, Sambo, or even Kosen Judo (a type of Judo which has similar rules to BJJ, the guard was invented in Kosen but old school Kosen doesn't feature all of its uses that the Brazilians mastered) because BJJ incorporates: the chokes of Judo, the leglocks of Sambo, the armbars of both, the guillotine, the wrestling sprawl, kneeling takedowns, and the wrestling clinch to name some things off the top of my head.

    BJJ has become a composite style for many different types of grappling within the ruleset of submission, but is fundamentally Judo based.

    Where Judo succeeds against BJJ in submission matches (like in the Abu Dhabis and other competitions) is not that its technique is as good in submission but that its athletes are of a much higher class. That's what bugs me so often about the Judo vs. BJJ debate where a Judo supporter will inevitably bring up the many successes of Judoka in BJJ and sub grappling competition. Rhadi Furgeson, perhaps the most famous of these Judoka (he got 16th in the Olympics and is a brown belt in BJJ) brings up the point that it's not that the techniques are better, because they're actually worse for those rules, but that the top level Judo athlete is higher than a top level BJJ athlete. Same applies for why Western wrestlers do well too.

    Now, for the street? Either one, really. If you're on pavement or in a crowded area, pulling guard may not be the wisest thing, but if you're on the beach or grass and it's not too crowded the guard is a legitimate option. Judo's emphasis on throwing will help you keep the fight standing and throws can often cause KOs, but the average BJJ player is going to be better at scoring the takedown and capitalizing it with ground and pound than a Judo guy of the same skill. Also, a lot of BJJ schools teach no-gi grappling which is very helpful if your opponent is wearing a tshirt or something where there's not a whole lot to grip. A normal Judo throw will work real well on a guy with a sweatshirt or a jacket, but has to be modified to work when there's nothing like that to grab.

    I'm primarily a Judo person, I'll be going for my first dan if I succeed in the upcoming tournament, but I've dabbled in wrestling and am currently dabbling BJJ and sub grappling. It's all useful and it's all fascinating.

    However, don't pick BJJ or Judo for "teh street" considerations, pick one up or the other because you enjoy it. Do you enjoy tossing people and getting tossed, and fighting for leverage and grip while standing up more than getting the fight to the ground more quickly and searching for a submission after submission? Or the other way around? Choose based off of fun, because the more you like something the better you'll be at it and the longer you'll stick with it.
  17. Scaramouch

    Scaramouch Lost Soul

    Great post LiaoRouxin. I agree, too many people on MAP focus on style vs style or whats the best MA x-training combo. At the end of the day you've got to enjoy your MAs in order for you to want to continue and succeed. Your local instructors have a big part to play as well. You may decide you want to do BJJ over Judo on the basis on what people say on MAP but find out your local BJJ school is decidedly average whilst you have a fanatastic local judo school with a number of high ranking instructors and elite players - or vice versa. In that case I think I'd choose the better school, not primarily focus on MA vs MA.
  18. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    The other way around, definitely. But there is a judo dojo less than ten minutes from where I live that has good instructors and is, at this point in time, affordable for me. I'd certainly try BJJ if I had the opportunity.

    As far as the guard goes in a streetfight...

    I understand that BJJ guys tend to train groundfighting pretty heavily, so even if the guard is not a favorable option, wouldn't a balanced BJJ practitioner still be able to simply go for a mount or rear mount? Unless the opponent is a skilled groundfighter, the guard wouldn't seem all that important and can simply not be used in a situation where it would cause problems.

    Also, in my experience with judo, almost all of the judokas that don't turtle constantly (a much worse groundfighting strategy in a street fight than pulling the guard) strongly prefer the guard (I think I'm the only one at my dojo who tends to attack the guard and try to get past the legs more than trying to pull the guard).

    So does BJJ really overuse the guard (or rely on it more than judo)?
  19. aml01_ph

    aml01_ph Urrgggh...

    I think they since for a strict BJJ man that is the first and only step to gain victory. But with the recent trends of MMA, even the family who first promoted BJJ are beginning to understand the value of being competent in stand up.

    The turtle actually is a good defense against multiple attackers who attack simultaneously. It is the only way to reduce damage when on the ground and every available guy is kicking you. Of course it is obviously not perfect since you surrender your kidneys if you don't barrel roll.
  20. SouL

    SouL Valued Member

    I adopt the jkd approach and take the thorws from judo which i personally think is the best and most effective bit and combine it with BJJ groundwork. Hvae the best of both worlds :D all i can say training in both is very fun and just enjoy it as both can be effective in street Sd in different situiations.

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