Judo - the whipping boy of grappling?

Discussion in 'Judo' started by Timmy Boy, Mar 5, 2005.

  1. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    I think a little respect wouldn't be out of place. Calling something that you don't understand "stupid" verges on the ignorant.

    Also, strangling someone with a pirce of clothing may be ovious to you, but perhaps there are other less enlightened people who may have gotten something from it.

    As for living in fantasy land, knife fighting is a very heavy part of the curriculum, something which I doubt you cover in judo. Welcome to Fantasy Island.
  2. Captain_Coward

    Captain_Coward Ne-Waza Worm

    Do you carry a knife around with you every day, if you do i am sorry but you are breaking the law. I can accept defence against knife attacks something which we do actually cover at my club, You Run Away! That covers the fantasy land part.

    And come on i really hope every one if needs be could use some cloth to strangle another person, i don't think that is being enlightened, but if you know how to put on a scarf you can do it.

    I accept that stupid slipped in there unnecessarily and i do apologise for that, no disrespect intended. But this thread was about the validity of Judo, and in this context i believe that compared to some MA, Judogi are not the most unrealistic of training wears.
    Sorry again for any disrepect.

  3. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Pinning by itself isn't bad. The only thing that I don't like about this is can builds a reluctance to go to your back on the ground (something that BJJ fosters). While you don't want to be there for very long, it just seems like back down is tactically superior to giving up the back to prevent the pin (and I realize that is the most crude of responses.

    Nice points Kwan Jang.

    - Matt

    BRECKDOG Valued Member

    When I got into MA a few years ago, I was advised that judo would be a good start into grappling- it was great advice.

    I would say judo is- for the street (**only as a second line of defence if your fists, (+kicks, elbows and knees) hav'nt finished the fight**), a fantastic grappling art-cos the action is fast and frenetic- its all about staying on your feet/ keeping the other guy off balance- or going down in dominant position-
    whereas the chances of facing a skilled grappler and the practicality of into guard for 5 mins, or doing some exotic armbar is less.

    Preparing for an MMA match however, fighting other skilled grapplers, you'd have to address the above weaknesses and adapt it - In fact, I wouldnt bother with judo if I had other training options- Id develop more sub grappling/ bjj and standup wrestling.
  5. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Hi mate,

    I didn't mean anything either by my post, and no offence taken.

    The salendang clip ("the scarf" ;) ) was there to show some possibilities. I'm sure from seeying beginners at your club, you will agree that some people come in from the street with ZERO awareness or a basic knowledge of how to defend themselves.

    Good luck in your training.
  6. Captain_Coward

    Captain_Coward Ne-Waza Worm

    no offence taken m8, and cheers for your comments.

  7. Linguo

    Linguo Valued Member

    So I suppose Dr. Kano never pursued Judo as an Olympic sport then?

    Shiai(sp?) is an important element of Judo. Perhaps Dr. Kano did not design Judo with sport in mind, but he did see the benefit of the sporting element for both the individual and the art of Judo itself.
  8. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    JudoJedi and I had this debate a loooooong time ago, he was right and I was wrong.

    Kano, in his book at least, never said that Judo was a Martial Art.
  9. Captain_Coward

    Captain_Coward Ne-Waza Worm

    your quite right but verey few MA actually declare themselves to be martial arts, rather they describe themselves as a means to better yourself through training and to apply what you have learnt to your everyday life. Kano did speak a great deal on this subject of bettering yourself and your views through training which is why i feel Judo can be described as a martial art, even if many do not still see it as such.

  10. Captain_Coward

    Captain_Coward Ne-Waza Worm

    Actually as for the Olympics thing, would you not feel something you made would gain even more popularity if it was an olympic sport. More people taking it up means more people will learn about its core teachings hopefully after being attracted by the sport side. This may not have been Kano's intention but it would seem a logical one.

  11. shinbushi

    shinbushi Reaver

  12. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Kieron, I agree with you. I was just stating that he never wrote down if he intended Judo as an MA, but then he does talk about self defence ;)
  13. Fu Man

    Fu Man Valued Member

    Judo contains strikes (Atemi-Waza). Although they may not be taught in some dojos, the martial art, Judo, does have them.
  14. Linguo

    Linguo Valued Member

    Actually, I believe that was one of his intentions of presenting Judo as a sport to the public. I also think he recognized the importance of sport methodology when combined with self-defense.

    Why are there always two sides to this debate, Judo as sport and Judo as MA. I personally don't see why people insist on creating this divide. The two compliment one another, and should be seen as complete package. Judo as sport enhances Judo as a martial art.

    Dr. Kano never explicitly states that Judo is an MA, but he has stated that Judo is a tool for self defense, like as seen in the essay "Judo: The Japanese art of self-defense". Therefore, Judo does have martial applications.
  15. Captain_Coward

    Captain_Coward Ne-Waza Worm

    yup, there really shouldn't be a divide. Good Post. I understand what you are saying too col, this debate really gets to me, cause i can see both sides.

  16. GojuKJoe

    GojuKJoe Valued Member

    Yeah, I suppose you're both right, it can be either a sport, or a martial art, not necissarily exclusive. Personally, I'm doing it as a sport.

Share This Page