Judo Ruleset...

Discussion in 'Judo' started by EvilhomerNZ, Apr 1, 2008.

  1. EvilhomerNZ

    EvilhomerNZ Valued Member

    Hey all, I have my first Judo comp coming up in a week and I have NO idea about rules etc...

    I've only been doing Judo for a few weeks and all my previous competition has been in stand-up full contact tournys...

    Could someone please link me to the basic ruleset used for judo comps, specifically in NZ/Australasia?

    I need to know things like round times.. how the scoring works.. what's allowed/not allowed in comp (standing subs? RNC from standing? Leg oriented takesdowns?) Things like that.

    As always any and all help/opinions are much appreciated!
     
  2. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    Your competing without knowing ANY rules :confused:

    I get told all the time at judo, "you can't do that, its against the rules." Usually when I am about to pin or escape :bang:

    I would also be interested in a detailed set of rules, as I have only found a few short lists with a few :google: searches.

    Regards,
     
  3. Big Ash

    Big Ash Bruised but never broken!

  4. Nii

    Nii Valued Member

    I remember there are a LOT of rules. I'd try something perfectly logical but get told it's against the rules!
     
  5. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

  6. EvilhomerNZ

    EvilhomerNZ Valued Member

    Awesome Ash, much appreciated.
     
  7. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    This made me smile, ude garami is a shoulder lock :D

    There are also a lot of things open to interpretation...

    Is ude garami LIKE waki gatame...
     
  8. EvilhomerNZ

    EvilhomerNZ Valued Member

    Isnt it more of a 'manipulation'? As it's being used in conjunction with something else to achieve a different result?

    Whereas the 'lock' is more of a static hold with intent to bend until snappage or stoppage?

    The rules are so.. explicit, it's retarded. Lol.
     
  9. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    But the reason you tap when someone has you in ude-garami is due to pain in your shoulder, since it has been manipulated to its extreme to lock it out.

    It was funny at Aikido this morning, I mentioned this to the other guys who also do judo and when we were training one of them put another in a ****a-ude-garami (lower arm entanglement) and he said, "stop, your hurting my elbow." We all laughed... I guess you had to be there...

    Regards,
     
  10. Big Ash

    Big Ash Bruised but never broken!

    "Is ude garami LIKE waki gatame..."

    Ude Garami (Arm Entanglement) is also known as Fig 4 or Kimura. It complies with the rules as the attack is on the elbow joint. However ude garami can also be applied to a straight arm, this puts direct pressure on the elbow only. (can't find a picture that shows it properly)

    For those that don't know "Masahiko Kimura" is the man responsible for making this lock famous when he beat Helio Gracie with it. Hence it being known as a Kimura.

    Waki Gatame (Armpit lock) uses the armpit to apply pressure to the elbow joint, but unlike ude garami the arm is always straight.

    [​IMG]

    hope this helps.

    Ash

    N.B. Before anyone says it I know it was classed as a TKO because Helio never actually tapped.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2008
  11. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    I guess my point was to subtle. I know what ude-garami is, and what waki-gatame is. My point is that the rules say,

    and my point is, is ude-garami enough like waki-gatame for you to be awarded HANSOKU-MAKE if you throw with ude-garami.

    Regards,
     
  12. Big Ash

    Big Ash Bruised but never broken!

    Sorry misunderstood....yes, IMHO most referees would call hansoku make.

    Ash
     
  13. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    Thats my point, it is an opinion.

    I know one of my instructors told me, "throwing with an arm lock is not allowed." Then I said, what about ude gaeshi...

    [​IMG]

    Clearly, ude-gaeshi is not LIKE waki-gatame, since it is allowed.

    Regards,
     
  14. Big Ash

    Big Ash Bruised but never broken!

    Was your first question....you never mentioned ude gaeshi.

    No it's because they're two totally different techniques.

    Ash
     
  15. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    Ash, you just made my day... :D

    So my subtle point this time is that in my OPINION ude-garami and waki-gatame, are as different as ude-gaeshi and waki-gatame.

    I am just trying to point out that the rules require a lot of opinion and interpretation.

    I mean is it reasonable for me to point out to the ref that I only submitted to an ude-garami pin due to pain in my shoulder, since the rules literally say that you may not "apply Kansetsu-waza anywhere other than to the elbow joint." Then my opponent should be awarded HANSOKU-MAKE, and I should be awarded the match... In my interpretation :p

    Regards,

    P.S. My point about ude-gaeshi is that interpreting that rule to mean what one of my instructors told me (throwing with an arm lock is not allowed) is wrong.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2008
  16. Big Ash

    Big Ash Bruised but never broken!

    Not quite......both ude garami and waki gatame are armlocks.

    However.....ude gaeshi is actually classified as a throw, I would personally call it an arm drag/takedown. Ude gatame is then used to lock the elbow and gain the submission.

    If the armlock is applied prior to the throw then that would make it an illegal technique.:p

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwJD0nIy85k"]YouTube[/ame]

    You could try but he'd only tell you that the lock was applied to the elbow and therefore a legal technique. :p

    Ash
     
  17. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    In Yoseikan Aikido we call ude-gaeshi, ude-maki-sutemi, and it is all about the torque on the shoulder, not about the drag down, other wise it would not work. Hence, the reason for the grab under the arm pit. If it was a drag down, then the top grip would not be important.

    Also, from that point of view, there are a couple of ude-garami based sutemi in Yoseikan that I could use, based on the idea of an arm drag down, since I am not technically performing a kansetsu-waza...

    I may ask my instructor, since he is to be a ref at the olympics.

    In his opinion... :p
     
  18. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    Ude garami attacks the elbow. I hear this "shoulder" thing all the time, but I've been put in ude garami many times and never felt it in my shoulder. One time a guy did complain about his shoulder when I put the lateral version on him in practice, but he had an injured shoulder anyway.

    I do know that the medial version can cause a separated shoulder if the arm is all the way behind the back, so maybe that particular use should be illegal, then again, I've never seen anyone try it in a judo competition anyway. But it would be consistent. Hammerlocks are illegal, and it's basically the same...
     
  19. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    I always feel this on my shoulder. Every one I do it to says shoulder... I mean I have tight shoulders, but a few of the others guys are very flexible.

    I was told by one instructor that this was illegal, but I was just told the other night by my current instructor, who is an olympic ref, that it is not illegal :confused:

    I could not see anywere in the rules to suggest that a standing ue-ude-garami (upper arm entanglement aka a hammer lock) is illegal. Unless you are using the rule that kansetsu can only be applied to the elbow. But then that is nonsense, since tachi-ue-ude-garami is the same as newaza-ue-ude-garami. You can't say that in newaza the lock is on the elbow but in tachi waza the same lock is on the shoulder!

    Regards,
     
  20. Big Ash

    Big Ash Bruised but never broken!

    There are many versions of ude garami, and for me it depends on which one is used as to whether I feel it in the shoulder or the elbow.
    Both armlocks and strangles are legal in tachiwaza, I've never heard about the hamerlock version being illegal, if it is I may have to rethink my tactics 'cos that is one of my favourite subs. It shouldn't matter if the ude garami is applied in tachiwaza or newaza the attack is still on the elbow IMHO.

    Ash
     

Share This Page