Judo Learning curve

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by paddy77x, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. paddy77x

    paddy77x New Member


    I am a little new to the forum and I am happy to finally be part of it.

    I have been thinking about starting a judo course in my city to improve my self defence skills. Last night I was attacked and my phone stolen. The fear of someone attack you unaware had a profound effect on me. I felt helpless and scared. I had been thinking about learning Judo for sometime now but I couldnt figure out if i wanted to study Judo or Brazilian Jujutsu. I live on a tiny island where everything is far away. After this experience and exhaustive research and speaking to other teachers I decided to learn Judo. Judo is convient because the school is like 15 mins away walking. The BJJ school also is interesting and I will add some BJJ skills in the future but with no car it will take me 2 hours+

    Now I know and respect that mastering Judo is a lifetime study but I am thinking about the time it will take to be able to defence yourself. I know some boxing which is easy to learn but on certain forums people say it will take 6-10 years in order to be able to defend yourself with judo.

    please be aware i am not interesting in learning judo to go around beating people up. and if this happened again i would be more likely to try and escape but this attack was done when i least expected and if i had some skills i could have at least thrown the guy or got out of the clinch long enough to run away.

    Tell me your thoughts.
  2. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Judo is heavily reliant on clothing to both throw and submit people, you say you live on an island I hope it's not a very warm one.:)

    To get good at judo to throw a trained resisting opponent can take at least a year or two, but to learn a few throws and submissions to work on an untrained aggressor won't take nearly as long.

    Whilst hitting someone with the earth can be fun from a legal point of view it can lead to some issues if you really damage the guy.

    But judo is a great sport, gives you some good live skills and will make you fit all good things to help with self defense
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  3. paddy77x

    paddy77x New Member

    Unfortunately this island is hot nearly year round :). it is getting cooler but at times it is unbearable. i could begin learning and take seminars on no gi judo when i find any.
  4. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    There are plenty of videos around in how to adapt gi throws to no gi environments but the off balancing is slightly different but you will get that in time.

    And whilst a lot of the pins and chokes especially rely on the gi the arm bars don't, the pins are easily adapted and their are chokes that rely on no clothing so don't worry too much.

    Judo is a very good sport to learn for a number of reasons go along and try it
  5. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Judo works
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Judo is great, 200 hours in and you should be very dangerous to most untrained people the same size as you.

    Once you have that background, the BJJ class may also cover nogi training somewhat.

    Whatever you can get to regularly is the best option.
  7. hewho

    hewho Valued Member

    Sorry to hear you got attacked!

    Judo is great fun; and if they're allowing contact training where you are, is a good way of learning how to throw someone who is trying to throw you.

    How long it takes you to get 'good' at it is nearly impossible to answer, it will depend on how often you train, how good the instructor is, and what the other students are like.

    Just enjoy it, and keep turning up :)
  8. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    Judo is definitely a solid start.
    You will learn plenty of balance, timing and distancing from standing position which will help with close range confidence.

    What is available and how accessible the training is will always weigh in as to what you will maintain consistency in training, which is an important factor for improvement.
  9. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    If it takes you 10 years to learn the jacket throwing skill. It may take you another 5 years to unlearn the jacket throwing skill and relearn the no-jacket throwing skill.

    IMO, it's better not to develop that jacket throwing dependency in the first place. Try to develop a fast hand throwing skill - throwing skill that the moment you touch your opponent, the moment you throw him. It's much harder to learn, but it's better for self-defense purpose in the long run.

    How to find the contact points (needed for your throw) that you will need in a fist flying situation should be your goal.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
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  10. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Whilst this is probably true it's also irrelevant, the guys only option is judo or bjj miles away. So jacketed throwing it is for him.

    And you don't need to unlearn your throws just modify them, the grips and range change a bit but if you are good at judo you can adapt in a matter of months not years

    Collar and elbow no gi to replace lapel and sleeve for example
    Underhook and overbook to replace belt grip and elbow sleeve grip
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  11. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Says the guy who does the short sleeve jacket throwing art. :)

    No doubt that having to modify the techniques to suit your likely real world situation will slow your learning curve at first. but it could be a great in to really understanding technique and so streaking away later on.

    The fundamentals of throwing. breaking posture. baring or locking, control of opponents centre of gravity to break balance. are all the same. I would recommend practicing precisely what you have been taught for a few months so that you can understand how to modify it without putting a partner at risk. then finding a partner who is willing to work with you in converting entries and grips from clothed to non clothed .
  12. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Here is an example.

    If you have jacket, I can grab on your lapel, I can push you lapel with one hand and grab your leg with the other hand (knee seize). When you step back, since I still have a hold on your lapel, I can pull you and sweep your leg. My lapel hand can function for both push and pull.

    If you don't have jacket, I can push your shoulder when I apply knee seize. But when you step back, in order to pull and sweep your leg, I have to find a new contact point (such as your neck). If you step back very fast, I may not have enough time to move my hand from your shoulder to your neck.

    In other words, without jacket, some push-pull throwing combo won't work very well.

    In the following clip, because his opponent has jacket on, his right hand can function for both push and pull. He can't do that if his opponent has no shirt on.

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  13. IronMaiden1991

    IronMaiden1991 Active Member

    I would argue just because its trained with a jacket doesnt mean a judo-ka is going to be helpless, especially when a number of throws involve underhooking an arm or tripping with the leg at the same time. Anyone who can apply common sense with even moderate experience should reasonably able to apply the principles of these throws with a limb or underhooking an arm. Most people tend to walk around in shirts or jackets, so you still have leverage, and even with that factored in, there are throws involving the belt, and most people have jeans, pants or a belt.

    Now a beginner I can understand getting flumoxed, but not anyone whose been at the discipline past a few months.
  14. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member


    having practiced kung fu for a while I am in the habit of playing with movements to see what i can get out of them. on a couple of rare but significant occasions I have had to left go of everything and bail out of a technique because i could feel that it was going very badly for my training partner.
    This is because his head/spine were locked and he began to fall in a way that put the force of his body weight through his neck/spine.

    if you are a beginner playing with throws to adapt them for different situations. always go super slow. get your partner to be compliant. and learn how do the modified technique safely and reliably before training with active resistance.

    It is a testament to how safe the training practices are in throwing arts that people fail to appreciate just how dangerous a throw can be in an uncontrolled environment.
  15. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Guys not been on for 4 months doubt he is reading this but if he is, there is no need to play around with the throws to make them more deadly.

    judo throws are amongst the most deadly things you can do unarmed to an opponent, you simply need to play around with some of the grips and distancing to make them work in a no gi environment.
  16. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    To clarify - i was not saying that trying to make throws more deadly was a good thing.
    I was saying that there is the potential for harm when playing around with throws. Therefore any change to a throw even if it's "just" a change to a grip or an entry, should be practiced slowly with control and a compliant partner who gives constructive feedback. until you are confident that you understand the practical repercussions of the change. A change in entry or grip can alter where and how the partner falls and has the potential to accidently introduce traps and locks.

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