Jon Jones ducks MW Goat and P4P king, decides to rematch Karate Boy Machida Instead.

Completely understandable, I'm not trying to say the fight would have been different or anything. Sonnen has to survive 5 rounds without making a mistake and I don't see that happening.

Also Sonnen did try to throw punches when Silva had him against the fence with the rape choke (two arms free), but it was unsuccessful. As I recall before Sonnen was trying to get away

Frank Shamrock and Sakuraba spent most of their careers at early UFC middleweight and Pride middleweight, both 205.
I wouldn't put Carlos newton anywhere near that high, he won the welterweight title and could of had a draw with Matt Hughes, I don't think that warrents such a high position at 185.
Dan Henderson and Vitor are more of cross divison guys but I can understand them both ranked highly.
Lombard has mostly fought lesser competition and didn't exactly impress me against Tim Boetsch.
Shields and Jacare are good but they didn't impress me much against Mayhem.
Rich Franklin is great and I don't understand why he isn't ranked higher on your list, he should at least be there with Vitor and Henderson surely. I have no clue why you put Newton ahead of him.

I think Sonnen, Rockhold and possibly Weidman should be added. Also none of those guys performed as well as Sonnen did against Silva in either fight.

I never argued that he was the GOAT (that was just a sensationalist headline, which should be obvious as I did put Silva ahead of him in that list), just he was a skilled fighter who has beaten many other skilled fighters, was Anderson's toughest challenge, and that the myth that he's just a great wrestler with a mouth is actually untrue.

Silva starts grabbing shorts at 4.10 and he throws some strikes with it then lets go at around where you stated.
http://www.mmatko.com/anderson-silva-grabs-a-handful-of-sonnens-shorts-gif/
there's the start but for the full thing you need to re-rewatch.

I didn't bring anything up about vaseline or the knee. So I don't know why you brought that up.

Lesnar's problem is that Cain was a better fighter anyway.

Well that is an conspiracy theory, Dan Henderson says Sonnen wasn't training with him and at the time Sonnen was checking on his girlfriends father had a stroke, Dana also went to other guys before Sonnen. While that doesn't disprove that theory, there is actually no proof it's true so there not much point speculating when there is no real evidence.

True everyone has bias, but I always try to stay objective even when I like one fighter more than the other.
For example at LW I am a fan of Gray Maynard and Ben Henderson, however I don't really think Ben won the second fight.

I like Akiyama and kind of indifferent to Jake shields, i still think shields won.

Chael Sonnen is my favourite fighter but if you told me you thought Bisping won the second round and said you though Nate Marquadt won the third, I would say 'that's a fair opinion'.

So I don't know I've always tried to back up my points with evidence either what I saw in the fight or what an expert saw, but I'm not saying Sonnen is gonna beat Silva or Jones or anything of that nature. Infact if you look prediction for Sonnen Silva 2 I actually thought Silva was going to win. A lot of guys thought Sonnen would win and they are probably *lesser fans than me.

*Not trying to come off as a guy with a superior attitude; I'm just not sure how to phrase that.

 

Lots of people look like they're doing well against Silva, right up until they're not. In the fight game styles make matches, so it's hard to make any meaningful judgments about how good people are based on their performance against the same opponent. The second fight proves this, once he'd figured out the puzzle it went the same way as all his other fights (ignoring the fact that Silva maintains he was injured for the first fight and Sonnen failed his drugs test).
Sonnen is certainly in the top 5 of current middleweights, but the talent pool in the division is a little shallow (one of the consequences of GSP and Silva being people cutting or bulking if they can). In the deeper waters of 205 he's middle order at best.

 

I'm not sure I would certainly agree Vitor was doing pretty well up until he stood still, arguably Henderson won the first round, and I suppose Marquadt was doing good too. But what did Franklin, Okami, Maia and a whole bunch of others do?

And why styles certainly do make matches Anderson has fought guys with lots of different styles Strikes like Leben, Franklin, and Vitor. Jiujitsu guys like Maia, Leites and Lutter. And wrestlers like Okami, Sonnen and Henderson.

I think Anderson certainly changed his approach between fights in the first fight when Sonnen shot in Silva tried to intercept him by punching him or trying to get him in the thai clinch or throw the Ong Bak elbow. Whereas in the Second fight he tried to get double underhooks when Sonnen shot in; which didn't work in the first but it was more successful in the second round.

You also got to think about how Sonnen didn't mix his striking in as well as the first fight, probably due to the early success of the first take down.

You can talk about the ribs and the TRT. But I can also talk about Sonnen's stomach bug, weight cuts, mentality and the fact Sonnen still is on TRT; so I think that cuts both ways.

So hes is top 5 (I'd say Silva and Weidman are ahead of him at the moment if he was at 185) at the time the division is strongest? I'd say that you agree with me then that he is one of the best 185s ever.

IS 185 a weaker division than some others? possibly, you could make a compelling arguement for it. But I never said he's going to destroy 205, I'm not even sure he can get past Griffin. However all I ever said was about 185 and at that weight he's probably in the top 5 of all time.

 

Back to the cancellation of the event.

Long term ramifications?
In the end would it matter? Dana always say "there will be long term consequences between Jackson Camp and Zuffa" but will this really harm business in the long term?

 

1.) I said that was a conspiracy theory to begin with. though seeing as the knee injury happend weeks prior, and the twitter battle started a week prior it would indeed give him enough time to find out hendo was injured and then start trolling.

2.)Just as you said about Cain Brock, Chael's problem was that Silva was the better fighter. he beat him with both submission and a tko.

Chael even mentioned himself that the shorts grabbing didn't have anything to do with the outcome of the match. I still don't see Silva as a cheater for it. If it had been use to gain an advantage and win, then yes. but it was a momentary thing. Anderson still defended all his takedowns second round regardless, and still capitalized on his mistake. I give Chael credit in doing so well because his best strength is in Andersons one and what appears to be only, weakness. but as i said multiple times I personally don't believe that he's that great because that is one great strength. Not saying Anderson can't be beaten, and Chael did indeed make him look human.

To be honest Silva is one of my favorite fighter because his performances are lengedary, and I like how he carries himself. Up until the radio podcast where he went on about how he'd kill Chael, and of course the BS that was ufc 112 he usually embodies the "speak softley, and carry a big stick" philosophy , which is what I like in a martial artists. Him and GSP are examples of what I believe a martial artist should act like, and how they should carry themselves. but this is all just my personal ideas.

me being a jiujitsuka I'm actually more biased to great grapplers then strikers in general, but i like people who can pull of the whole JKD philosophy and battle, and win in any and all areas the most. since were going on about our fave fighters.

top 10 fav of all time
1.) Anderson SIlva
2.) GSP
3.) Matt Hughes
4.) Jon Jones- yeah, I said it
5.)jose aldo
6.) grey maynard
7.) urijah faber
8.) Lyoto Machida
9.) carlos Condit
10.)Randy Couture

also interesting article, and for mushroom's sake is on topic:

http://www.bjpenn.com/mmanews/2012/08/30/jon-jones-anderson-silva-vs-the-world-editorial-35532.html

and FINALLY Silva has agreed to fight GSP, in what I believe( and hope) will be his retirement fight.

http://www.bjpenn.com/mmanews/2012/...aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

 

Hard to say, I suppose Jackson's provides a lot of top MMA fighters, fighters that UFC will want.I guess it's comes down to supply and demand but they will have to co-operate.
On the other hand Dana White has done some crazy stuff in the past; I remember him cutting a bunch of AKA guys because they didn't want to sign a contract so they could be used in a video game. Maybe Greg Jackson won't appear in the next video game.

I'm going to respect Mushroom's wishes here.
I will deal with you later. Muahahahahaha

Spoiler

By PM

 

man sling whatever statistics you like.

here are the only ones that matter

40 fights with 27 wins and 11 by knockout or submission 16 of those wins by decision.

like it or not, these are the stats of an average fighter. not horrendous but not great.
My theory is that this guy is shooting his mouth off at anyone with a belt to try to fight them and somehow win and increase his standing.

wanna talk greatest of all time statistics?

Anderson silva : 36 fights , 32 wins (more wins , less fights) with 25 of these wins by way of ko , tko or submission ( note one of his losses was disqualification due to an illegal move

george saint pierre: 24 fights 22 wins 14 by knockout or submission

Alistair overeem: 48 fights 36 wins 34 by knockout or submission

Bas Rutten: 33 fights 28 wins (less fights more wins) 25 wins by knockout or submission

THESE are the greats. how does Sonnen stack up by comparrison?

 

and my top 10 in no particular order

anderson silva
GSP
Alistair overeem
Jose landi ( average win count , but what style, i like him, hes no great but i like him)
Juniour dos Santos
Bas Rutten
Wanderlei Silva
Benson henderson
Bj Penn
Shogun rua

not all greats , but i like them, their style and the way they fight.