Joint lock/Throw from incoming punch

Ok, alot of people prefer to counter a punch with another strike.... What about intercepting the incoming strike and using momentum and leverage to apply a lock or throw... Seems a bit more pratical to me, rather than taking the risk of more strikes. Anyone else do this? Any specific techniques used?

 

The interception of the punch and the corresponding lock would be dependant on the type of punch, and to what area.

 

Ok, start with a high rear hand strike aimed at the face

 

My instructor had shown some throws against a punch where he'd grab the arm, stick his back to the opponent's torso and execute a perfect throw, it's pretty practical...there are probably more counters in aikido for locks etc against punches I think...

|Cain|

 

A good link with a well written article on the possibilities and practicalities of applying wristlocks from punches is:

http://www.martialartsadvice.com/art.php?cat=5&art=88

Deals with some of the logic behind what's possible and what's not.

Warning, contains Opinion!

 

Well, alot of people will argue this but from what I have seen, and I have studied martial arts almost my whole life, you will not catch a punch from someone who really knows how to throw it. It just aint gonna happen. I have proven this many times.

 

I don' think you can open hand catch one, but if you use the right block and roll it into a trap, then carry it through, you can catch the arm in a lock.

 

Waya
You're talking about a Reverse Arm Lock as called in Ju Jitsu, similiar technique is found in Chin Na (Hence a lot of Chinese systems) and Muay Boran (Old Muay Thai).

Basically scissoring the incoming punch between the guard to dislocate the wrist and elbow and then rolling over for a basic lock/ continued destruction between the arms (Immediately kick them in the face, hard)...

 

That's one technique I've seen. There are endless possibilities really.
I'm not speaking of any one specifically, just wondering about thoughts on it and how others do it.

 

Waya,
Well it works,
I catch people with it all the time, the main point is distance.

The technique in Chin Na and Muay Boran is very active. You are closing the range, evading slightly and allowing the punch to come partially through the guard and sharply twisting the forearms in.

You are jamming it at approximately the Elbow with your one inside forearm and at the Wrist with your other.

Causing the arm bones to be struck and moved in opposite directions at the same time. Hence why the technique is banned under the Muay thai ring rules.

The other version that works well is the Chin Na technique Zhao Cang Shoulders the Sword, which is a slip (As are most chin na techniques) so that you evade slightly and move in on the punching arm.

Striking it from below with the Levering upward elbow, simultaneously catching the arm at the wrist, therefore causing the punching arm to Bow. As seen in Hung Gar and many other Chinese styles.

 

One of the techniques I use is very similar to that, from the sounds possibly even the same.

 

Which technique-The Reverse Armlock?

Was this in your Hapkido-I don't know what it's called in hapkido?

I did a version of the Reverse arm Lock in Hapkido when I was doing that, very similar to how it's used in Ju Jitsu, more of a trap using the hands, rather than wedging between the forearms, but the same intent.

Most of the more grappling orientated arts have a core of similiar techniques, just that sometimes the means of delivery are slightly different.

 

The Hapkido techniques I've done were more throws from a punch.
My normal use outside of throwing is a 45 degree inside move along the arm, striking upwards at the elbow and down at the wrist. From there I have a choice of breaking the arm, using an armslock, or possibly throwing.

 

That sounds like a variation upon the theme. An offensive Block basically, these are pretty much the only way to trap punching arms, by somehow closing the distance and snagging the arm between the guard/ hands etc.

Throws are a different kettle of fish entirely. I prefer to counterstrike first then throw, in order to help set them up. Obviously I don't want to be struggling for a throw, whilst my adversary is battering me with their other hand/ any other weapon of choice.

A common throw 'straight off the bat' is the Hip throw (and variations). I guess if you were quick enough and you tapped into your attackers forward motion and got their balance, then you could apply it. I don't know whether i'd be willing to try though.

Throws/ uprootings that work nicely for me against incoming punches are stuff like the Thai Boxing technique 'Giant Fells the Girl'. Usually from the clinch, but it can be applied fast enough from go.

It's a saw-seeing motion, pushing/ slamming the elbow into the face, whilst the other hand uproots them from the lower back, they go head over heels backwards. many variations of this. It's currently a banned in the ring technique, because you are slamming them on their head. Nasty.

One of Yodas threads recently was a guy getting reverse supplexed straight onto his head in a MMA fight. Very nasty-punches were exchange, his adversary clinched with him, lifted him skyward and then bang.

 

It's quite hard to catch a punch, but I think in Aikido you're not really taught to catch the punch, but rather blend and then if possible grab the arm and execute a lock or a throw.

 

Like everything I guess,its sounds like you need your Distance and Timing spot on.
Do you guys consider this a difficult approach?
It doesn't seem like a high percentage response,more a higher level tech?
Particularly when so many stylist focus on drawing back at high speed.
Just mulling it onver in my head,I have only seen what you are talking about in Demos never against unrehersed attacks.

Personally any throws or joint manipulations(even fingers) I try to do from real real close, and thats after I have evaded softened (made them go OWWW) and broke their balance.

 

Yes Kat,
Distance, Timing, Opportunity.

In my humble opinion the only truly practical way to ensnare an incoming punch is via a Reverse Arm Lock scenario. Ie wedging the incoming punch between the arms.

I do this routinely sparring in Muay Thai, it works nicely and have done for years. As for 'catching' a real boxing style punch any other way, with your teeth, is the answer to that one.

Reverse Arm lock variations are the only way (that I have found So Far) that I would ever try to ensnare a punch and apply a lock from, because they are Offensive Blocks/ Destructions/ Roll Overs and you are not trying to catch a punch, at it's most outward point of motion with your hands, but with your guard via a quick rolling scissoring motion.

You never draw back, you're moving slightly in. I wouldn't bother against a jab, but against a Cross that has Intent behind it, it's a great shock to the system.

Other than that, I, personally would never attempt a throw or lock etc, without counterstrikes first. But that's just me, others may choose to do it differently.

I repost the following article. it's a fair appraisal of the situation with regards to wrist locks:

http://www.martialartsadvice.com/art.php?cat=5&art=88

 

Kat

Not a difficult aproach at all but you have to smack the person to break there momentum I have been doing locks and throws for YEARS now but cant catch a punch without luck - or them being poo!

Throws and locks work well when you do somthing to slow the striker down - hit em.

Then lock and throw away and it works great. I keep my locks and throws for ground work and standing grappling/clinch work.

 

Picture's worth a thousand words so I'll endevour to take a couple of pics and post them in the gallery when I can.

 

Cool Jim

Me to as I keep meaning to get some of my mug on here!