Joined Judo - Grrrr! Is this instructor crazy?

Discussion in 'Judo' started by jujitsuka07, Jun 9, 2008.

  1. jujitsuka07

    jujitsuka07 Body by Pizza Hut!

    I've stopped traveling to my JJJ class because it's too far, so a week ago, I joined a Judo class that just started. I was there for the dojo's FIRST CLASS;...the instructor didn't even teach any breakfalling. He made a 30-second speech on the history and purpose of Judo, then went right into Kesa Gatame.

    After Kesa-, he had us do more-or-less free-style 2-on-2 sparring and grappling. I dare say virtually no one knew what to do/what they were doing. Most of the other students were elementary and middle schoolers :eek: (I'm college age), so that was different...

    Second class - no breakfalling either, but the instructor begins teaching Ko Soto-, O Soto-, and Ou Uchi- Gari. When he threw me in Ou Soto, I slapped the mat (to absorb the shock) as part of my Ukemi. It was only then that he decided to tell the class why slapping the mat is important...but that's all he did was explain - we still didn't do any breakfalling.

    Next class, we will work on Uchi Komi's.

    I would dare say that this isn't the normal sylibus for the first three days of class, is it???
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2008
  2. righty

    righty Valued Member

    Ooooohhh...sounds fun.

    For the first class, I wouldn't be to against it becuase you didn't acutally end up doing any throws. And sometimes it's better to get people right into things, especially if it's a new class with lots of new people. And let's face it, ukemi practise can get repetitive.

    But breakfalling should definitley be done before doing any throws. I have heard of some Judo schools that don't teach the normal breakfall as they are encouraging people not to land on their back (good for competition) but it still deserves a good lecture of learning to how fall and not hurt yourself. So, personally from your description, I don't agree with how the class have started.

    Are there any higher grades there that help him demonstrate throws and other techniques? It can be hard without this.

    On first though from your description it sounds like the sensei new to teaching. Possibly he may also be a new black belt hoping to advance further by starting his own school and teaching. Hopefully he will get better with time.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2008
  3. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Sounds ok to me. The best way to learn breakfalling is to do it.

    The Bear.
  4. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    I'm interested in what you mean by the bolded part?
  5. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Are you being serious?
  6. Shiho-Nage

    Shiho-Nage I'm okay to go.

    That's ridiculous. The best way to learn ukemi is to practice it every single class as part of warmups. Learning to fall properly is the most important thing in any class that trains throws, hooks, sweeps, reaps, etc.

    I can't even fathom a judo/jujitsu class that doesn't stress safe ukemi practices much less teach them.
  7. pauli

    pauli mr guillotine

    inexperienced instructor.
  8. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    It's endemic in many UK Judo clubs, very few actually teach proper breakfalling.

    This leads to problems later in competition where people try to land on their sides to prevent the Ippon.
  9. Lily

    Lily Valued Member

    Hey jujitsuka :)

    Are there any long time students working at the club (on the mats with the instructor or at the front desk). You should ask them when they learn breakfalls.

    I remember getting SICK of practicing breakfalls about 100 times a night for the first two weeks at jujitsu. We'd start with why its important, have BB's demonstrate on each other some nice hard throws, then practice the falls from near ground level and progressing to being thrown a few times with control until we started becoming more instinctive with our falling.

    At least your jujitsu background helps :cool:
  10. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    :yeleyes::yeleyes::yeleyes: Who would teach like that?

    regards koyo


    Sounds to me that the instructor gave you an idea of what Judo is. Then showed how it applies standing then showed groundwork. Next uchi komi showing you how to move. ALL good.

    regards koyo
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2008
  11. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Yeah. Your on a padded mat for god sake. The worst thats going to happen is you get abit winded. It's better to learn to fall from applied technique than roll around.

    The Bear.
  12. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    I dunno, we spend our first class on breakfalls in my Judo class.
  13. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    I used to do it in some Aikido clubs, personally I just saw it as a conditioning exercise rather than the practice of breakfalls.

    The Bear.
  14. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    THose were not aikido clubs. :)

    Why not tell them that your learning of breakfalls included a punch in the mouth or a knee in the gut to help you on your way?

    regards koyo

    To be fair all of my guys are cross trainers with years of experience and the Bear dispite what you maythink is a gentleman BUT powerful and TAS.
    tough as..
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2008
  15. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    heh heh ain't that the truth.

    Or that you can't roll out of a properly applied technique, you just have to splat with style (or without in my case).

    The Bear.
  16. Shiho-Nage

    Shiho-Nage I'm okay to go.

    What's the worst that could happen? Muscle pulls/tears, dislocations, concussion, bone breaks.

    Just because there are pads/mats on the floor doesn't mean its safe just safer than a bare floor. The best prevention of injury is knowing how to properly roll/fall.

    The philosophy of learning as you go with ukemi is reckless, dangerous and foolish.
  17. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    WE never teach ukemi separate from the relevant technique as we believe that we are subliminally teaching the student to respond to an attack with a breakfall often falling for an ineffective technique. All ukemi are taught alongside the technique.

    The senior student must execute an effective technique without injury to the junior. This is a valuable method for both.The junior is allowed to "feel" the effectiveness of the technique and see that it is pointless to resist far better to counter with another technique.

    At an advanced level all ineffective techniques are countered if the partner has been "trained" to ukemi he may choose to do so rather than counter which again leads to ineffective techniques.

    So yes students "learn ukemi as they go" but under the eye of an advanced student.

    regards koyo
  18. Shiho-Nage

    Shiho-Nage I'm okay to go.

    While that may be 'learning as you go' that sounds fundamentally different from just having the person learn how to fall as a result of being thrown.

    It sounds as if instead of doing forward/backward rolls and breakfalls one after another as part of warmup a person is shown the proper way to fall/roll relative to the technique currently being practiced. Correct me if I am wrong on my interpretation of what you wrote.

    If that is the case then while I see that as different from traditional ukemi practice I think its interesting and solid. Having a senior student/teacher show the proper way to roll/fall from the technique, again, is a lot more guidance than the "figure it out on the way down" philosophy that was mentioned earlier in this thread and to which I responded.
  19. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Often I shall throw a relative beginner with a "strong" technique. What impresses the higher grades is that he (the beginner) executes a good breakfall.

    This is down to sensitivity on my part a principle not often mentioned in "martial" arts training.

    I shall always attempt to keep a student out of his comfort zone to build his spirit but NEVER act in such a manner as to break his spirit.

    My own early training was in the late 50's early 60's and would probably be seen as extreme by today's standards however even then such training was only offered to those who would thrive under it.

    I have no time for mystics or machos everyone who trains sincerely deserves the same amount of respect. Injuring someone carelessly is a definite NO.

    regards koyo
    below what looks like a severe breakfall however I am actually "guiding" him into it.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 11, 2008
  20. aikidoka-je

    aikidoka-je Blue Floral Belt

    your sensei probable wants you and the rest of the dojo to learn to fight and not fall

    over time ive found with judo people learn the right way to fall over time if your good at judo you arint going to be the one falling in a real fight

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