Has anyone got any substantial evidence or is it all hear say and my mate said as this is all very witch hunt towards mr brocas?
That's sort of what I'm wondering. Sort of, though perhaps a bit differently. More specifically, are the allegations mentioned in the original post (e.g. the news article) in this thread true, or just a witch hunt? Surely Jock or one of his students or his teacher could have gotten that sorted for us by now. Still waiting for that.
Hey Jock what would youlike to see? i think i've gathered a fair amount of info about him. Lets begin with the memebership, i've had confirmation that Jock charges £45 for membership but no one has ever seen the yellow card, this was also confirmed earlier by a person who recently trained with Jock, read back as i'm too lazy to quote. Then we have gradings, Jock graded people who paid but then never saw the certificates. More interestingly we have the gym issue, the reporter who works for the paper has a file of people who made statements owed money by Jock, looking at records for companies house its registration was followed in quick succession by two director changes and a premises notification this being in 2001-2002, presumably the second of these is the suposed 'move' of premises which subscribers found that the business had vanished. There is then a 3year gap in which no attempt is made to refund any creditors or file for bankrupcy, this 3 year period ties in with Jock's lying low from 'hunter forces' (wtf are they??) After 3 years a strike off application is made to the companies registrar (conveniently at christmas) and the second and final strike off is granted on the mandatory 3 month date later. I'll hopefully have the information of how he got away with this later today for you. so Honchi67, is that ok for you?
Its a bit tough for Jock today that my ex-wife is ****ing me off so i'm taking it out on him, some details below on how it was easy for him (until now) to get away with it. So in the first instance, as anyone who has ever been a victim will tell you, it is very difficult to get Scotlands finest to bring a financial or fiscal fraud to prosecution. Secondly the nature of the business that he chose to perpetrate the fraud in was at that time notorious for similar scams. Duncan Bannatyne said in an interview that when one of his gyms failed, he feared being tagged as a gym subscripion fraudster as it was a common scam at the time. It is an ideal venture to commit subscription fraud in as it involves a large number of people paying an upfront fee for an intangiable service. By their nature these people tend to be aspirational and if the training doesn't work out will tend to fall away from their training committment. Furthermore, in the eyes of the law, if the business is operational, it would be up to the subscribers to band together to organize a case for refund of fees as creditors, which is very unlikely due to the disparate nature of the plaintiffs. Just for your own reference these are the brief details if you are searching the London Business Register. Company registration-SC224172 45 Finneston Street Glasgow North Lanarkshire Company name- Vogue fitness and nutrition L.t.d. Type- Private limited company with share capital. Current status- Dissolved. Documents- 12.10.2001-company incorporation. (notice the timeline here, within 7 months he had incorporated a company, started it then did a runner, intentional? most likely, 7 months is a short period of time for a gym (i should know) unless he knew it was doomed and either intended to do this from the start or saw the end coming and ran) 01.05.2002-notice of change of directors particulars. 01.05.2002-notice of change of situation and address of registered office. (more likely changed director & location so he could vanish) 23.10.2002-notice of change of directors particulars. (notice this gap of 4 years, this is when the 'hunter force' was after him, again WTF are they?? surprising coincidence that he vanished with money at the same time) 09.12:2006-1st notification of strike off section 652. 31.03.2006-2nd notification and strike off from the register. These documents can be viewed for £20 each, but the sequence of events pretty much says it all. does anyone need anything else from me today or can i go for a beer and curry tonight??
Just a reminder- this is Ed Martin's mate if people have forgotten that point. Also another note is that has anyone seen him seen this thread started? his website is down, you cant get hold of him, he is not teaching at his club his senior students are (although he is still taking the £45 direct debit each month per student) maybe the hunter force is after him again or some terrorist organisation...i have it on authority he has vanished...
Wow, I'm real glad I typed Jock's name into google now. It's real interesting to see what he's been up to. I've had a great laugh through this thread, all 46 pages of it. heehee. Let me introduce myself, My name is Robert. I sometimes come on to MAP and will post in the MMA or Thai Boxing sections. This is my first time posting on the Ninjutsu Forum. Hope you guys don't mind. I might be able to help you clear up some things regarding Jock Brocas or is it John Brocas or even John Mitchell?Where to start? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Guess I'll start at the beginning. In 1999 I started working as a fitness consultant at Ivy Court Leisure club in Glasgow. A couple of years later the gym I was working in (not the whole chain of health clubs) was taken over by a man called Jock Brocas. Getting excited yet Manga? When Jock took over he told us that he now owned the premises and we could stay with Ivy Court or join him to start Vogue Fitness and Nutrition. As all of the staff had bean treated terribly by Ivy Court we decided we'd go with the new management. Jock had lost around four stone and reasoned that if he could do it he could help others lose weight too. The best way to do that would be to open his own gym. Despite all the recent photo's he had actually got himself into very good shape and started bodybuilding and it was his aim to compete in a competition. Jocks fitness credentials were legit. He studied daily and put himself through an advanced personal training course. At first I didn't really want to know Jock but then he told me about his love of martial arts. As I am passionate about the subject too we started to get on really well. He had a Bujinkan tattoo on his shoulder and got a silver Bujinkan symbol made to wear around his neck on a chain. He claimed that the Bujinkan represented his whole way of life. Massaki Hatsumi was his wallpaper on his laptop. He had about 3/4 books written by Hatsumi and did study them diligently. You might like this one - he told me that he had trained with Hatsumi in Japan and that because of his espionage lifestyle as a bodyguard, security expert, army paramedic and life in the SAS, Hatsumi had taken Jock under his wing and was presented with a huge 8 foot scroll from Massaki Hatsumi. He also said it was burned in a house fire! He was desperate for someone to teach him Ninjutsu in Glasgow so he checked the internet and found a guy called Billy Aird/Ayr. (sorry I can't remember his second name). Billy came and brought a class to the gym. Billy was very very good at the Ninjutsu from what I could tell. He was very humble and as I had been studying various arts up to that point I could tell he was skilled. I had trained Judo for few years and Billy had the slickest break fall rolls I have ever seen. Billy might be able to help you if you can contact him. I believe he emigrated to Austrailia. I became good friends with Jock and as I was still very young he did take me under his wing. Jock was always a bit paranoid. He had mail sent to the Gym under a variety of names. He also had I.D's of all the above. He told me he had to change his Identity numerous times because of his SAS background. He told us one day that we would have to be extra vigilant as he was going to reveal his true Identity and go public and that it would be in newspapers all over the uk. He said he was sick of hiding his identity and people may be after him because of his past. He finally issued a press release and there was a tiny column about it in one paper. That was about all. He claimed he was a bodyguard for the Queen mother and also some sheikh in Saudi Arabia. We did have a few young guys that came into the gym from Saudi Arabia and when he met them he greeted them with "Habibe" Then we realised he was fluent in Arabic as he would sit down and have long conversations with them. Take from that what you will. I remember he had a security company before he started with the name Omega. There is a big Omega security company but it isn't that one. He told me that after 9/11 he was asked to be a guest on radio scotland to talk about security issues. Jock was good with the Bo and Jo staff and Swords and Kama's. He gave me a set of Kama's that were razor sharp and are most likely illegal in this country. He also gave me part of a rifle or machine gun he had once owned. I don't know the technical name for it as it doesn't interest me but it was like a chamber or something. He was friends with Mike Mitchell up in Aberdeen who has a military background http://www.aboutaberdeen.com/mikemitchell.php Jock prided himself on his espionage skills. I know I haven't given you too much juicy info yet but here's the REAL story behind the Vogue Gym closure. Another company came in and showed Jock a way to get big money fast and they would split the profits 50/50. The deal was that people would be lured in by call centres, booked in for a viewing around the gym. At the end of their tour they were offerred a deal where they would pay a lump sum of say £250/ £300/ £450 for long term memberships of 3,4 or 5 years saving the member a lot of money. The up side was that general gym retention is low so people frequently drop away after a short while. It was very successful so Jock used his espionage to find out the intracacies of the business and told them the deal was finishing only for him to recruit some of their staff and set up the same business model but with a higher percentage of profit. As these memberships were still being sold Jock told us that we were moving to a different location on the south side of the city in only three weeks time. Funnily enough the new gym was on the same side of the same street that Ivy Court was on. Many members were very angry but nothing was done about that. The staff got together and decided we should speak to Jock about his crazy decision. We spoke to him to tell him all the reasons why we should not move location and why we should definitly not be moving with such short notice. We spoke in turn and pleaded so that he would change his mind. At the end he just said - No we're still moving on the original date, and his word was final. We ended up being taken over to the new Gym which was already an established gym. Some of us were taking Gym inductions there and others were selling gym memberships there for the two weeks before we were to make the move. The night before we made the move Jock came into the old Gym looking white as a sheet. He looked physically ill. We asked what was wrong and he just said he was stressed out. The next day all the staff turned up ready to start at the new gym. The owner of that gym at the time told us to go sit in his office. Then once we were all there he announced that the deal had fallen through and there would be no takeover and we were from that moment unemployed. We reasoned that Jock would just resume business at the old Vogue Gym. That would not be happening though as Ivy Court still owned the lease to the building even though Jock had told us he had bought the place. As we're sitting being told that we have just lost our jobs a text comes into one of my colleagues from Jock saying - Don't let Ivy get the CD player!!!!!! Enjoying his life of corporate espionage he had decided to try and jump straight into competition with Ivy Court and leave them with a massive building with no-one to pay the rent. I believe the reason behind it was to make all the staff happy as we weren't the biggest fans of Ivy Court. Sadly he failed miserably and left all of us unemployed. It's a shame because at the time up til then everyone pretty much got on with Jock even with all of his stories. Once we found out the situation we walked along to Ivy Court to find out what had gone on as there was no response from Jock aside from the CD player text. All we got was the staff laughing at us because we didn't stay with Ivy Court. We left and went to a cafe in town and when one of us went outside to make a phone call he was thrown up against a window by a member who recognized him and demanded his money back. I was spit at on a seperate occasion, People shouted 'thief' at me in the street. The general consensus was that we had ALL stolen the members money when in actual fact we lost out more than anyone as our names were mud in the fitness industry and were now unemployable, Anytime Vogue was mentioned it signalled the end for our chances. We didn't even get our last months wage. Over a year later my brother opened a little gym and asked me to work there. Within the first month a lady came in to view the gym and my brother introduced me to her. She replied I remember him he stole £350 from me for a fake gym membership. Luckily my brother was well aware of the situation and set her straight. For some reason (Jock) we were all blacklisted, likely because we assured everyone they were moving to a bigger and better gym. Fortunatley for Jock he managed to escape by running up north where the 'Hunter force' (society + strathclyde police) wouldn't find him. He texted me to ask to meet up shortly after, I said I'd be happy to meet him if he brought the £250+ that he'd taken from my mothers best friend for a long term membership a couple of weeks before the place closed. Strangely he never tried to meet up with me after that. I have no idea if he really was in the SAS I have no idea if he really was the Queen mothers bodyguard I have no idea if he really was a bodyguard to a saudi sheik I have no idea if he really was a security specialist I have no idea if he deserves his rank in within the Bujinkan I have no idea how much money he left the gym with But what I do know is that man can Sing like Pavarotti!!!!! His voice is actually amazing however he would never go on X factor as he'd be afraid of the public backlash! He'd probably win it though.
:topic: As a total outsider it seems ludicrous to me that this Ed Martin has barely ever trained yet is ranked so highly. If I go to Thai Boxing or MMA the most respected coaches are the ones we have seen fighting or the ones who have openly displayed a high level of skill. I cant think of one coach that has never took part. Even in Judo or TKD I never knew of this happening. Sorry if Im ruffling feathers!
The only feathers you are ruffling mate are those of ****s like Martin and Brocus, keep it up please and the answers to your questions at the end of your previous post is a big no apart from the last one, nobody knows how much he has taken..
For the sake of clarity, can you confirm that Jock took the money and was in possession of it? In other words, it was not some company that he turned the cash over to but he pocketed it himself. Also, can you state clearly if he was in a position to refund the money and instead chose not to?
Unfortunatley I don't know exactly What happenned with the money. There was a lot of money taken in to the business at the time. When the gym closed the accountant for the business was on holiday in the u.s. She was horrified when she got back as she knew nothing if plans to relocate. Her name was Ali (Alison) Mckenzie. She may know more than I do. I'll try to get in touch with her. I don't keep in touch but I'll see what I can do for you. I truly believe Jock tried to move the gym location but when the deal fell through he had burned his bridge at both ends and took whatever he had and ran. I actually don't believe he planned it to turn out that way but it did. Sorry for not being able to nail down specifics for you at this time. I'll work on it for you tho. I'm still in touch with a few others from that time.
Clarification long overdue Originally Posted by Nojon View Post Hi Manga, "I believe Carlos Febres of Nindo Ryu was given an honorary shodan in Genbukan, it may have said Goshinjustsu, but I dont really remember. That is another ninjutsu forum 40+ page bickering match. " Actually Dr. Carlos Febres has a 6th Dan (Rokudan) in Genbukan Ninpo Goshinjutsu. Is not an honorary rank. The last person that question Dr. Carlos Febres rank within the Genbukan years ago, received a scolding from the powers to be, lost his position in Genbukan and is not a member today. That's why is important to remember, when it comes to Dr. Febres martial arts experience and training, you can't follow what you hear in the net.
This tubby loser? http://www.maotw.com/gmg/n/nindoryubujutsu.html oh, he's such a fake, a real goon in the martial arts world, so bad we never even bothered really doing him over on here as he's such a gimp, about in the same sick bucket as Ashida kim
So we should not follow what you say on the net either? Actually, I am aware of several people in the Genbukan that openly stated that Febres' rank was only honorary. All of them still seem to be in the Genbukan. John Lindsey comes to mind. It was amusing to see how Febres was a member of e-budo while his underlings tried to say that the rank was not honorary, while several folks in the Genbukan said that it was a form of "attaboy" rank instead of a real one. Febres himself was quiet in public, was telling a few Genbukan members in private that his students were mistaken, but never taking a stand in public to correct them. Of course, it is not the first time Febres had been found to be pushing a story about rank from the Takamatsu-den that turned out to be false. He originally claimed to have been offered an eighth dan in Togakure ryu from the Bujinkan. Of course, no one can offer someone that rank. You have to pass the fifth dan test first. When called on it, Febres changed his story multiple times and the person he finally gave the name as offering it denied it outright. Then the Nindo ryu started trying to say that it was some sort of conspiracy by the Bujinkan. As you can see in the link offered by Nutjob, he is still trying to claim that he was offered rank, he is just being a bit more vague about the details.
Listen, there is no need for bringing weight into this. I'm fat, and I still manage to practice martial arts AND fight crime. :yeleyes:
Okay John calm down. We are only pointing a finger at that person and not you. If it help I have some calomile tea if you wish to have it.
