JKD Straight Lead

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by m1k3jobs, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. Sheever

    Sheever Valued Member

    deleted.everybody can do their way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2012
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    The straight lead philosophically comes from fnecing - something which I have actually trained in for a time (foil) - so that is why the hand goes first. Bruce saw the hand as a figurative sword, hence he took it to be the same.

    The straight lead is also assisted by the hammer principle.

    However, I have yet to see a straight lead that has made me go "WOW! AWESOME". It is a lead hand shot and effective to be sure, but no beter or worse than any other lead hand shot you would find in boxing

    This is a great example of a power jab in reality as opposed to theory

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kDmKufmy8w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kDmKufmy8w[/ame]
     
  3. Sheever

    Sheever Valued Member

    yes its nice clip.
    I had that WOW the first time I saw in real and even bigger wow when I felt it without see at all.the thing it most impressed me it can be done from anywhere untill it goes straight line so it comes from position I never exepted without sign also for counterpunch as the other hand parrys low line kick forexamlpe and just found myself biting it.I am not using jab from the time I saw how it works in full contact.
    actually my rib broken at the moment because of lead punch on body with the mechanism I just mentioned above.I didnt get this experience by jab but i did train with bigger guys than me.
     
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    No different than a jab done properly then :)
     
  5. Sheever

    Sheever Valued Member

    that jab.straigh lead is what I just wrote before.I deleted by the way.
    Hannibal I tell you my honest.the first time I saw that straight lead I understood I didnt see any of it before in my life not in real not on demonstration clip.
    anyway it doesnt make any difference anything i say.
     
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    it's a discussion Sheever so don't take it is anything else.
     
  7. Sheever

    Sheever Valued Member

    sure.wont do that.
     
  8. Mharewood

    Mharewood Valued Member

    The Straight lead is not a Jab. its one of the most difficult punches to even learn.
    If people think its a Jab. That's because they gave up on learning it correctly. And we can see who those people are here!
     
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    So we were having a civilized debate on it and you come in with that pile of crap post 3 months later - way to go

    As already stated, and I quote

    Anyone who is not a complete divot can see that......oh, wait
     
  10. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Welcome to MAP.

    Rather than tell us where we are going wrong, why not explain the differences as you see them?
     
  11. Jabby Mcgee

    Jabby Mcgee Valued Member

    Absolutely irrevocably wrong I'm afraid. If you have any understanding of the mechanics of the jab, then you couldn't possibly state that.

    We had a discussion here not so long ago about the different kinds of jabs, so I'm not going to go into that in any detail now. Put simply, the straight lead, as has already been stated here, is simply a power jab. That's not to say that it isn't a difficult punch to learn and perfect - of course it is. It require precise timing, an understanding of body mechanics, and when we take the hammer principle into consideration, doing it so that it is delivered without the opponent seeing it can take years. However, this is no different to the power jab, because it is exactly the same thing.

    Aside from fencing, one of the inspirations that Bruce Lee had when developing the straight lead was Jack Dempsey. If you watch any old Jack Dempsey clips, you'll see him throw power jabs that look remarkably similar to the straight lead, the only real difference being that he throws it with his week hand, where JKD guys traditionally throw it with their strong hand (although I do not). If you watch Jack Dempsey, you will notice his famous 'Falling Step' when he jabs, which is used in the mechanics of the straight lead, because it is exactly the same thing.

    In fact, if you watch any boxer throw a power jab, particularly old school boxers, you will notice that it is the same as the straight lead. I say this as both a JKD guy and a competative boxer.

    As Hanibal said, there is nothing mystical about the straight lead. It is just a lead hand punch.
     
  12. Sheever

    Sheever Valued Member

    disagree.the straight lead need different structure to get the support of the body,but there is few ways to do that and depends when u use it and what conditions are.the point is to hit through the target with the whole body.
    Bruce was influenced by Driscott and Dempsey but the straight lead is modified for fencing structure.
     
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    No different than ANY striking art then is it?

    The hand is not and never will be a sword

    Have you ever fenced btw?
     
  14. Jabby Mcgee

    Jabby Mcgee Valued Member

    What are the differences in structure? There's a slightly different stance, granted, but that was more to fit in with Bruces bigger idead of JKD as a whole, i.e. still being able to kick, and not because the boxing stance is not appropriate. Asside from that, there's no other reald difference that I can see. Sure, some people like to emphasise the individual component parts of the straight lead, which then leads others to believe that there is something special about it, but this is just so that people can learn how to throw the punch properly.

    If people studied the jab as much the straight lead, they'd discover that they are effectively the same thing. There may be some subtle differences here and there, but by and large that comes down to individual style rather than doing anything to support the idea that the straight lead and the jab are two seperate entities, in my opinion.
     
  15. Mharewood

    Mharewood Valued Member

    And if you had any understanding of the mechanics of the Straight Lead then you would not say that I'm afraid.

    Thank you for the Kinder garten lecture on what Inspired Bruce Lee By the way. I already have the book by Dempsy as well as one By James Discroll that influenced Bruces work. But what influences him and what he comes up with are different things. Bruce stripped away things as he progressed what he was left with was something between boxing and fencing but neither of the two.

    And for the record he eliminated the Hammer Principal. It was just something he was experimenting with.
     
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    And I am sure he told you that over a latte when you were training with him as a first generation student.....
     
  17. Sheever

    Sheever Valued Member

    you know just for example of defferences look at the karate punch is not jab especially you hit the body its all extended stabb into it and the body give the weight from behind its non collapse structure,jab is more snappy.now get the idea and convert it for different situation forget about boxing just focus on structure support the stabb in fencing no need to push the body trough it damage a smallest touch or cut against force its not enough
    its all depends how the conditions are.
     
  18. Jabby Mcgee

    Jabby Mcgee Valued Member

    As it happens, I have a pretty solid understanding of the straight loead, having trained informally under several first generation students, and having spent a signifigant amount of time trying to perfect it. I've also put it to pretty good use in the boxing ring, although I called it a jab, because that's what it is.

    It's funny how Bob Bremner still teaches it then.... This is actually a common misconception about Bruce lee. It strikes me that what most people don't understand is that different first generation students teach different things, based on what they learnt when they trained with Bruce. Just because a different student didn't learn it at a different time doesn't mean that Bruce discarded it. Having died at 32, we don't know what he would have continued to use.

    In any case, it wouldn't really matter if he did discard it. Just because Bruce invented JKD doesn't mean that he is the grandmaster of all knowledge on the subject of martial arts. many people consider Dan Inosanto to be a more accomplished martial artist than Bruce. This whole idea of doing exactly what Bruce did is a dangerous one, as it goes directly against Bruce's own philosophy of what JKD is.
     
  19. Jabby Mcgee

    Jabby Mcgee Valued Member

    With the greatest respect, I found that post quite difficult to read, as it didn't make a lot of grammatical sense. I'm not having a go at you about that, but just letting you know.

    In any case, we're not talking about karate. That's a different animal, and in my eyes not really pertinent to this discussion.
     
  20. Sheever

    Sheever Valued Member

    sorry for the gramma.but try to read.there is the answer about structure.
     

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