The whole of the ninjutsu forum, or are you that short sighted. You came here originally to mess with Ben Cole didn`t you, now why are you still here? And, if the thread is about Jinichi Kawakami why all the Bujinkan references?
I came here interested in the martial art I used to study. Ben Cole had nothing to do with it. That'd be because other people keep bringing them up by point of comparison. This is valid, but silly when it spirals off into yet another Boojer's raised hackles. You'll note that more secure personalities like Dale Seago don't do this.
I only asked questions into your possible motivations, nothing more. But, your first post was made towards Ben Cole. And, you are eyebeams over at Bullshido right? Well, I might be wrong? But, YOU are the one wanting to discuss certain things and drawing up comparisions. I think you might need to go over this thread again. As far as secure personalities I`m not sure if you can make any claim to a personality via a web board. So, you are generally interested in discussing what exactly?
The problem at hand is really that participants are basing their analysis of Kawakami on Hatsumi and applying either disproportionate standards or assuming that received tradition has the force of fact. This is diverting things away from useful discussion. For example, the actual ryuha listed by Kawakami can be investigated by a neutral party, especially since many of them are not claimed by Hatsumi at all. But this is all being obscured by the fact that a few people are acting out based on their own hangups about things I just don't care about. I disagree. There's nothing wrong with faith. It's imposing one's faith that's the problem. I have no faith-based appreciation for Kawakami or Hatsumi. This thread's not about the Bujinkan's technical merits. It's not even about the Bujinkan, except by way of comparison to somebody else's gig. I reply to the statements I'm given.
Malcolm Sheppar posted Yes but that is Ben Cole. even people within the Bujinkan don't always take him seriously. And the claims of one man does not mean everyone in the Bujinkan believes the same thing. Ben Cole is not the Bujinkan representative however much he like to think he is. Any way OK kets get back to that then. Just a observation but looking at the Discovery channel programme with Mr Stephen Hayes where he is tasked to enter a room with LA police offocers to get to a target, there seems to be some clips with Mr Kawakami on there when the narrator talks about the ninja. This kawakami fellow does all the quick fight scenes i.e with the kusarigama. However of course one would not expect Kawakami to be given the task of penetrating in to the villa because I think a Japanese fellow might be expected. But why is it that the ask Mr Hayes opinion and get him to demonstrate ninja skills, stealth walking, sword defence, shuke etc and not the other ninja master Kawakami. I mean surely they could have got an interpreter. Just a thought. Garth
Rjarhu posted Isn't this what i posted? If you claim that X is several hundred years old, it is you that must prove it. it is not for me to prove that you are wrong. Garth
I think that Discovery probably just bought the footage from NHK or somebody else and used Hayes for their original footage, as Ohio's cheaper to get to for an American company. A lot of these shows use canned footage this way. Nowadays I think they probably would spend a bit more money because martial arts shows seem to do well.
I have that on Video... Can I ask you a question Garth...why did SKH opt to try and trick his way through but then when he was at arms length from both cops, didn't try to disarm either one prior to his "assassination atempt" It just felt like he had to really reach to take that hat...when he should have been in a better postion to take it... I had been praying for some rubber shurkiken throwing...
Actually, I stand corrected. As Discovery has a branch in Japan they probably did film parts there and edited it in the US -- but some of it was footage I'd seen before and that almost certainly included the reenactors. Nevertheless, I seriously doubt choosing an American to appear in a show for Americans says much one way or another.
Rubber tanto posted Because thats ninjutsu I guess two reasons a/ didn't neeed to b/ Health and safety If you only knew the full story. Oh and apparantly armlocks were applied after the event after the producers asked Mr Hayes to now get out of the building. unfortunately that never appeared on film. Garth
Malcolm Sheppar posted Including Kawakami Even though discovery had covered Tanemura for Americans. Garth
Once again, it's more likely that this was due to there being an American guy on hand to do the actual talking than any assessment of ninjerosity. Mainstream TV is generally not big on relying on translators. The only possibly-American student I know of with Kawakami is the guy posting in this thread.
Malcolm Most of the time i actually agree with you when it comes to teh subject of providing proof, but I really think you are now clutching at straws. You come over as though you have some experience of martial arts and now how television companies work. Can you give us some back ground on yourself. Garth
Nothing I've said about TV is outside the realm of common knowledge. The segment with Tanemura is on Youtube; they talk to an American guy, not Tanemura. Does that mean Tanemura isn't "ninja enough?" Just white guys with beards are real ninjas? This doesn't require special knowledge. It requires rubbing a couple of brain cells together. Kawakami's appearance on TV shows in one capacity or another means nothing, and insinuating it does is reaching. That said, I have done a bit of TV work, but as it was under a nondisclosure agreement I can't say much more than that. One funny thing is that part of my work did include suggesting foreign language content with overdubbing (Italian in that case), which was rejected for all the reasons I'm talking about.
If you make a claim that it is wrong based on x,y,z, you have to show how you proved it wrong. Edit: Also garth you might want to look at the skepticism article as well, particularly quote from Keith Lehrer. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/skepticism/ It might be helpful for future purden of proof arguments and fallacies. And, for others some notions on informal logic* http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-informal/
So how about that ... hmm... background information there Guy? What martial art do you study and how long have you trained ect.? I also find it odd, that this thread is about Mr. Kawakami and you want to bring up everyone associated with ninjutsu in it. http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57499
I don't know what the actual argument is about the discovery show, but here are a few clarifications. Tanemura Sensei does talk to the crew in English, so does Roy Ron Shihan (from Isreal) and James Wright Shihan (from Scotland). It might not be on the youtube but it is on the actual show. The Takaharu Genbukan Dojo (Spain) website use to have pictures of the actual filming and of the crew. The Shibu-cho Peter Vermeeren Kyoshi and his wife were the ones who took pictures and they also socialized with them. The crew did not look Japanese in the photographs.
