Jikishin or shorinji jujitsu?

Discussion in 'Ju Jitsu' started by Elitistjester73, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. Elitistjester73

    Elitistjester73 Valued Member

    I was training in Jikishin before I got made redundant and had to travel some 40 miles to do so. There is now a Shorinji club starting up which is 10 minutes down the road.

    Are there any significant differences between the 2 styles or is it a case of jujitsu is jujitsu? From what I've seen Jikishin seems to be more old school and Shorinji is more of a judo based system and their own site says there is less of a ground game than other styles.

    Any advice welcome.
     
  2. Jumonkan

    Jumonkan Valued Member

    IF it's real Shorinji

    If its Shorinji Kempo or Shorinji ryu jujitsu?
     
  3. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Jujutsu definitely isn't jujutsu, there are huge variations between systems. However, there are also similarities, so if you wanted to give it a go you would likely find yourself picking up their basics a lot quicker than a raw beginner and, hopefully, would find yourself progressing faster.
     
  4. Elitistjester73

    Elitistjester73 Valued Member

    Well....

    Their site quotes Shorinji Kan Jiu Jitsu neither of the styles you quote but thanks for your interest.
     
  5. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    A Jitsu Foundation club then, in all likelihood. Might as well go along and see if you like it. Clubs vary significantly depending on the instructor you get, but it's generally a lot of fun and offers access to a huge number of clubs in the UK teaching the same syllabus.

    I trained with them for a number of years and enjoyed it a lot.
     
  6. Elitistjester73

    Elitistjester73 Valued Member

    Mmm.....

    That's what I thought I'm keen not to lose the 'effectiveness' of Jikishin to a gentler Judo based style. I'll probably have a go and see how it pans out. Thanks for your reply.
     
  7. Guitar Nado

    Guitar Nado Valued Member

    Just curious, what makes Jikishin less gentle? Are the throws more aggressive or something? Is the overall attitude more aggressive?

    I see from your profile you have done Judo and Jikishin, so I figure you would know - I haven't done either, but I did Danzan Ryu for a couple of years long ago.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  8. Omicron

    Omicron is around.

    I'm also curious to hear what you think makes Judo less effective and more gentle than Jikishin. I once taught a Shorinji Kempo seminar at a Jikishin Ryu school, and I participated in a few classes while I was in town as well. Having also trained in Judo and BJJ, I would say that the Jikishin was a lot heavier on the theory side of things, and not so big on live application, though some sparring was encouraged. It seems to me that the average Judo class is a lot rougher than the few Jikishin Ryu classes I attended. Of course, it all depends on the school and the teacher, but these are the observations I've made, for what it's worth.

    I don't have any experience with Shorinji Ryu, though I am dan graded in Shorinji Kempo. From what I recall, "Shorinji" is the Japanese reading of the Chinese characters for "Shaolin", and Shorinji Kempo traces its lineage back to China. Is the same true for Shorinji Ryu jujutsu?
     
  9. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Surely the first time I've heard judo described as less effective, or indeed gentle.
     
  10. Elitistjester73

    Elitistjester73 Valued Member

    Judo=jujitsu 'ish

    I've read that Judo was basically Jujitsu with the more 'dangerous' elements taken out also Judo starts from a holding position whereas Jujitsu incorporates defences against strikes, kicks and holds i.e. lapel holds, wrist holds etc., so I'd say Jikishin is more aggressive not in terms of participants but techniques.
     
  11. Elitistjester73

    Elitistjester73 Valued Member

    Don't get me wrong...

    Ok so judo is effective if you have two players or a player against a non player and if you're thrown by an experienced player then you'll know it but judo relies on holding the opponent whereas Jujitsu have techniques to combat grips, so doesn't that put the Judoka at an immediate disadvantage? Guess it depends on what you want from your art.
     
  12. Elitistjester73

    Elitistjester73 Valued Member

    Shorinji and Shorinji...

    Ok I think there is some differences between Shorinji Kempo, Shorinji Ryu and Shorinji Kan, the latter being the club thats starting near me. Another posting has suggested the Kan is effectively teaching a Jitsu Foundation (JF) syllabus, so I wiki'd them and sure enough prior to a name change Shorinji was included in the original name. The history of JF seems to be a mishmash of Judo, Aikido, Karate and Jujitsu thrown in for good measure, reading further through the wiki site it also says self defence is limited by the nature of attacks employed.

    I'm pretty sure from articles i've read on net that Shorinji employed in other countries is totally different to that in the UK with a few exceptions. Seems that as a club you can call yourself pretty much what you want without some lineage back to a recognised body.[/U]
     
  13. Kave

    Kave Lunatic

    Nope, because Judo does rely on grips, gripfighting is a massive part of Judo. I would be surprised if low level judokas were unable to deal with the vast majority of the Jujitsu grip counters.
     
  14. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    This is quite a bizarre claim, as I've rarely seen other styles defending against baseball bats, knuckledusters, chains and chairs, so the attacks are not that limited. I think the fairest criticism is that sparring in the traditional sense is relatively rare in the Jitsu Foundation, but there's a lot of pressure work in more scenario based training.

    I suppose the argument could be made that the attacks are limited in that there's not much emphasis placed on learning to defend against other martial artists, but that could be considered a decision based on the probability of actually encountering another martial artist trying to fight you.
     
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Judo is generally more effective because of the training methodology - the removal of certain techniques made it easier to train with resistance

    Typically most schools of Ju Jitsu ( especially the Gendai systems) lack any real pressure in practice. I would back a judo player of even rank in 9/10 situations as a direct result of the training

    I hold a 2nd Dan in a Gendai system and it offers a lot of techniques, but I had to funtionalise them on my own. For me this meant the early MMA circuit. If you are able to drill your stuff with hard contact or pressure of some kind it will inevitably yield rewards

    Have fun has to be the main thing though - so make sure you do!
     
  16. Elitistjester73

    Elitistjester73 Valued Member

    Bizarre or not...

    This is not MY claim but a quote from the Wikipedia site entry for Jitsu, you've had experience of the style so you're better able to comment I'm just looking for advice on which path to take.
     
  17. Elitistjester73

    Elitistjester73 Valued Member

    Not encountered grip counters

    So can Judoka break grips using wrist turn outs (Kote gaeshi) for example and hold parts of anatomy not just the Gi?
     
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    In a tournament? No....in a fight? Yes

    The problem is the THEORY if what you would do to a judoka is meaningless unless you have drilled it. To break a grip is not straightforward against a judo player because it is their bread and butter.

    In the same way your punch defenses can beat a boxer...in theory. In reality they will punch holes in the attempts because they are rarely practiced against legit punches
     
  19. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    yeah, there's a difference between tournament Judo and Judo as a system. Also you're not talking about Judo per se anyway, you're talking about a Judo based Gendai Jujitsu system (which I thought also applies to Jikishin, so I'm somewhat confused), so it would address those issues anyway :confused: The Judo component of it would likely be more "old school" anyway (from before the major rule revisions of the past 20 years).
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  20. Elitistjester73

    Elitistjester73 Valued Member

    From my experience in Jikishin and although both styles, Shorinji Kan and Jikishin, are both Judo based Gendai there 'appears' to be a greater emphasis on the Judo side with Shorinji than Jikishin but I'll have to try Shorinji Kan to see if fits me. It's a moot point anyway given I can no longer get to a Jikishin class easily so it's either Shorinji Kan or Judo in my area.
     

Share This Page