Jesus Christ (real or not?)

You assume that this is a natural consequence of a god that does not inflict suffering. Not only does this betray some strange self flagellating streak, it doesn't make sense; there are no natural consequences if god is omnipotent, he could simply make people so that absent suffering they decide to smoke a lot of pot and have sex with each other.

 

There's a simple answer to all of this philosoraptor

Spoiler

 

You are not a good person if you are only good when it benefits you. The difference between a good person giving a homeless person money so he can eat and a not good person giving a homeless person money, is the good person quietly gives the homeless person money and only did it out of compassion and kindness. The bad person gave the homeless person money so he could take a picture of it, and post it on facebook so he could brag about how good of a person he is for giving a homeless person money. A good person is good whether people are watching or not. A person that is not a good person, or that is bad person, will only be good when people are watching. Like, I said you are not a good person if you are only good when it benefits you.

I like how you cherry pick arguments I make, argue against them, and completely avoid all the other points I make that would have struck down your new arguments. You don't seem to be interested in getting any clarity or answers, you seem to be determined to win the argument by hook or by crook.

 

Spare the rod spoil the child. People are called spoiled for a reason.

 

Archaic and limited thinking

 

What do you think makes someone spoiled then. I think not having any responsibilities, never being punished for ones actions, never having to deal with the consequences of ones actions, never dealing with any kind of struggle, never dealing with any kind of hardships. I think that can spoil a person.

 

Love this. I've felt this way for a long time as well. I'm sure that god, as the father of all man kind would not want his children to suffer as I make sure my children don't suffer. If he knows that people are going to suffer, and let's it happen anyways well then I'm not sure that's the guy I want to worship. It always bothered me that some poor, cancer ridden kid in a third world country would suffer for years before dying a agonizing death would not be eligible for heaven simply because he didn't happen to get baptized, or accepted Christ, or donated to his local church. This kid suffers on earth, then he gets to burn eternally... sounds like a crappy deal for him. Good thing I was born American, and have a good American church that loves my good American money. At least I'm saved...

 

Then no Christian is a good person because they believe that if they are good it benefits them.

So what, this does nothing to justify giving children cancer.

Not at all, your arguments are simply unconvincing. I understand that you believe the world needs suffering to build character - but that does nothing to talk about why some people are born with a silver spoon and others are born in war zones. If the people born with a silver spoon are less likely to receive salvation then that is its own form of injustice. But as I've said, this is the perversity of Christianity and the reason that Madam Theresa allowed people to languish in disease and torment while she received anesthetics for her own suffering.

 

...because that's the way the deity apparently set it up. You keep missing it; omnipotent. Literally limitless power over everything means that all these conditions, all these cost/benefit things you keep bringing up, even if they ARE true are set up by the deity in question in the creation of the universe and that means our arguments apply. Even if things actually work that way, the deity is still to blame.

 

Your project, whether you realize it or not, is to justify that children getting cancer and no medical treatment is right and good AND the result of a perfect creator. Something ain't adding up, unless you really fricking hate kids.

 

So people who don't get cancer are spoiled? What action do you think justifies giving children cancer? If they disrespect their parents should they get cancer? Should they be sent to hell? Besides, many children who get cancer haven't actually done anything to deserve it at all. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong genetics.

 

If you want to debate me. Take my argument and dissect it, then strike it down with logic and reason. Shaming tactics are last resort people begin to use when they can't win a debate. I like kids. I don't like to see kids suffer. and you know that. But if were going to debate, let's at least be fair about it. Just because I'm striking down your arguments with precision, doesn't necessarily mean I'm right. It just means you haven't thought up a thorough good rebuttle to strike down the points I made. And you may never be able to. Because I do believe I am right.

 

Ill address the point you made and read the paragraph you wrote later. I get a new argument on here to debate just about every 5 seconds. And I haven't even begin to answer all the questions in the other thread.

 

No he simply said it doesn't say he died on a cross or was nailed. It just says he was pierced for our transgressions.

 

Ill address this stuff later. But please don't post new arguments that have already been struck down by points I already made, unless your willing to show why those points I made are wrong first.

 

There I answered it.

 

Not at all. No one likes to see children suffer. I'm sure you and I would do something to stop a child from suffering if we could. But literally millions of children, hell, billions, have been born into the world through history and did not survive to see puberty. If you are arguing that this is justice or the actions of a compassionate god it is up to you to show how.

 

Sweet baby Jesus, is that....

Spoiler

Q?

 

Why would God make nature this way?
Living things in nature exist by consuming other things from nature; why did God set things up that way? It brings about a ton of suffering. Why not set things up such that we get all the energy we need to live automatically--poured into our bodies from God. For every living thing.
Or in any other configuration, set up reality such that everyone has as many resources as they need to live comfortably forever. And set up our brains so that we are very happy with this. (Humans without some form of challenge in their lives would probably be pretty unhappy as-is, though elaborate games could perhaps suffice.)