Jesus Christ (real or not?)

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Bozza Bostik, Oct 19, 2016.

  1. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    I don't want to mess up the other thread that is going on about Christianity, so thought I'd start a new thread to discuss this simple question.

    Jesus Christ - Real or not?

    I'm not referring to whether Jesus was or wasn't the son of God, or if he died for our sins, but was he a real historical character? (Am I making sense? i need more coffee).

    I'm honesty undecided myself, but that's due to a lack of knowledge really. Folklore and mythology are fascinating things, but I have never really bothered with reading about Christianity.

    So what do you think? I need to know what to think, so if you guys could tell me, that would be nice! :p
     
  2. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I've generally thought his existence is less certain than someone like Muhammed or Churchill but more certain than King Arthur. "Schrodinger's Jesus"? Who existed and didn't exist at the same time. :)
    Given that something like the cargo cults and existence of John Frum can arise in the last century I think it's wrong to say that Jesus's existence is 100% certain.
     
  3. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    I think he is fictional.

    I think Joseph was the prototype for Jesus.


    If you compare his 'stats' to other deities he appears entirely constructed out of existing traditions of worship and the clay of existing figureheads.
     
  4. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    As far as I know it's accepted that there was a guy named Jesus who was baptized by John the Baptist and killed by Pontius Pilate.
     
  5. liero

    liero Valued Member

    When I had a look at this in as much detail as seemed important at 16-21 when questioning religion, Jesus may have been real, but the stories were more likely composites of various subversive, anti-Roman figures at the time.
    I have no sources or credibility on that, just what I remember from several years ago.
     
  6. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    That's true of the later, elaborated portrayal in John. He's a figure that's been retconned heavily to match existing tradition.

    Just going by what's in Mark, (which most scholars accept is the earliest-written gospel) minus miracles the story isn't particularly implausible and it would seem strange to place a wholly-invented figure in such recent history.

    There isn't really any straight historical evidence other than in Josephus, which may well have been subject to Christian interpolation, so no definitive answer is likely to present itself.
     
  7. ned

    ned Valued Member

    My own extensive research suggests he was not the Messiah but was , in fact a very naughty boy with links to the Peoples front of Judea .

    Talking of naughty boys , where's Iron fist when you need him ? :p
     
  8. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    With all that wine, public disorder in temples and hanging out with prostitutes and reprobates, I'm inclined to agree.
     
  9. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    But what authoritative cannon are you using to source your comparison? . Over the years their have been many revisions. Once revered texts have been deleted and consigned to the apocrypha.

    I for one was deeply saddened when they removed the New horn Mythos from deities and demigods after a copy-write dispute. The cthulu Mythos also fell to the revisionist axe. But such was ever the way with guardians of the one truth.
     
  10. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Just various stuff I've seen floating around to be honest, Tom. Mostly the assertions of other people (journalism, documentaries etc) and their incredibly convincing arguments that it's the case. I can't say I've ever dug into researching this properly as it's not something that really matters to me, regarding the central questions of theologies and the place they have in my life.
     
  11. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    I suspect that the Jesus story is based on one or more very popular teachers, but embellished after his death. This is based on similar observations in more recent times involving celebrities with cult followings, some even within the martial arts circles.
     
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Especially as he is not "Jesus Christ", he is "Jesus THE Christ".....the term is a descriptor, not a surname
     
  13. 8limbs38112

    8limbs38112 Valued Member

    Christ means anointed one if I am not mistaken.
     
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    It does.....and there are/were hundreds of them
     
  15. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    It was actually Jesus H Christ. :)
     
  16. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Yes, but Jesus Christ looks a little more amusing and eye catching in the title though...I was debating if I should put the (Real or not?) part, but thought I might get told off and made to sit on the naughty step like certain other members recently.

    I might do one of these a day, maybe Robin Hood tomorrow! I'll use the exact same OP just change the person.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
  17. 8limbs38112

    8limbs38112 Valued Member

    Yes and they are mentioned in the book I read by Lee Strobel. Apparently some people use the argument, "there were many christs" to discount Jesus or Yeshua as being the real one. I can't remember how they struck down that argument though. The coming of a "Christ" to take on punishment for sins was prophecied about in the OT, so it's inevitable that some frauds would come along, or crazy people claiming that they were the one mentioned in the OT.

    Now the Jews don't believe Jesus was the one that God sent to the earth. They are still waiting on the messiah.
     
  18. 8limbs38112

    8limbs38112 Valued Member

    If you actually look at messianic prophecies in the bible, one of the prophecies in the OT goes along the lines of the messiahs hands anf feet being nailed. Or something like that. One difference between Jesus and the other so called christs is they were never nailed to a cross. So when the real Christ died his hands and feet had to have been nailed. And there was only a certain time period, I think it was when the Romans were ruling that people used crucifixion on a cross as a form of punishment. So it is most likely that if the Messiah was real, he would have came in that particular time period. The time period when the government used crucifixion on a cross as punishment for crimes.

    Check out the messianic prophecies, they can be interesting.
     
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Source ? Because self-referencing is not exactly the best way...otherwise you have to accept the existence of every deity with a text

    Also worth pointing out the "crucified god" is a remarkably common trope in mythology too
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
  20. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    And it's not especially hard to go back and do some edits so you now have a fulfilled prophecy as evidence of the rest of the story you're constructing.
     

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