Jeet Kune Do has been superceded by MMA

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by jvg81363, Nov 30, 2020.

  1. jvg81363

    jvg81363 New Member

    IMHO Bruce Lee was a decent wing chun guy, and wing chun has some good points.
    Bruce was not the best in wing chun, and wing chun is not the best Chinese system.
    If you analyze films of Bruce sparring and hitting the bag in the mid 60s, it was clear
    that he had a long way to go. Modern MMA is essentially a combination of boxing, muay thai,
    and catch wrestling. Lee knew some catch thanks to LeBell, but there is no reason to believe that
    he was highly skilled. Lee had no understanding of the clinch position in either thai boxing or MMA.
    Lee sparred with a wide linear stance that would make him a sitting duck for a single. Lee had no
    apparent expertise in using the shin as an offensive or defensive weapon. As a Chinese stylist, he did
    not know classical iron palm technique or training. Lee was quick and I do believe that he hit hard for
    his size, but there were lightweight boxers who were faster and who hit harder. JKD is hardly the first
    hybrid system. Korean styles such as hapkido and hwa rang do are hybrids. Chinese masters have been
    combining older systems for centuries. Created in 1947, kajukenbo combined kenpo, karate, kung fu, judo,
    jiujitsu, escrima, and boxing. The movie success of Bruce Lee, which came primarily after his death, should not be
    confused with technical matters. I give Bruce credit for bringing the martial arts into worldwide prominence,
    but I do not believe that he was a great master.
     
  2. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I don't know much about JKD except from documentaries, movies, etc, but I don't think Bruce Lee ever claimed to be a master of anything. If anything he mastered philosophy because having studied it as a student, he turned his personal philosophy into something quite unique. As you said, it led to the whole martial world looking at it. That's quite an achievement indeed. And it doesn't happen often...

    However from a fighting standpoint, I think I agree with you. Lee wasn't a fighter, he was an actor, stuntman, scholar, and teacher who happened to be exposed to a very wide range of martial arts, if not excelling in any of them, really. Consider this, he trained Judo and boxing but didn't get a black belt or compete as a pro. Some people, including myself, believe only the best fighters enter actual arenas. Everyone else is kind of hobbying it, but that's just my opinion. Not to say that anyone who doesn't compete can't fight, but those who don't train to compete probably can't, and Bruce didn't. That doesn't imply a single one of his philosophical insights was wrong, just that people should stop using the argument that he could even hurt another person. Everything I know about Lee would imply he was not capable of actually beating people up. That doesn't mesh with his personality.

    Still, I would really love to learn JKD, and I know it can't be learned from a book. Neither can Judo or boxing.
     
  3. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Superseded in what sense?
     
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  4. thegreyman

    thegreyman New Member

    Looks like you know very little about Bruce Lee the martial artist, not the actor. In any case, recommend you try a legit JKD training facility and you will be quick to see its street applications.
     
  5. Kemposhot

    Kemposhot Valued Member

    Bruce Lee should be acknowledged and respected for the ideas and philosophy he brought to the Martial Arts and life in general. There’s no doubting the mans physical condition and life style choices that were unusual for the time but are more practiced now.

    Also his relatively unheard of take on mixing different styles to be a more complete martial artist could be seen as a distant cousin of today’s MMA.

    The man died at 32 years old. Had he survived, there’s no telling how different his legacy would look today. I imagine things would have been tested and he would have changed things to adapt with the times. He’d be roughly 80 years old if he was alive today. That’s a lot of life to continue perfecting things, adapting, changing to match the current trends. JKD may very well have evolved to be what modern MMA is today. It’s fun to speculate.

    Would Bruce have continued his movie career or eventually retire and focus more on his MA career? I’m not sure, there’s definitely more money to be made in film. I don’t worship Bruce like some martial artists, but his contributions definitely need to be acknowledged.
     
  6. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    What exactly were his contributions?
    1) he made wing chun unintentionally popular
    2) he gave us jkd a niche martial art hardly widely practised
    3) ironically he made the sort of Kung fu
    he seemed to despise wildly popular as a result of his films

    I think that's about it, the mixing of different arts was widely practised in China and Japan; karate and judo, bak mei and southern dragon, xingyi and tai chi, northern arts and shuai jiao, the list goes on.

    As for the whole dropping forms and training realistically no one started doing that on a mass scale until the early 90s and the first few UFC's
     
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  7. Kemposhot

    Kemposhot Valued Member

    I would also add his ability to overcome racial boundaries and serve as a role model to audiences of all races, especially at that time period as a major accomplishment.

    I don’t diminish the role film plays on Martial Arts either. While unrealistic, it is an inspiration and starting point for many martial artists. Bruce making those popular in the west undoubtedly brought countless people into the arts.
     
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  8. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Bruce himself was actually mixed raced. Chinese + German/Dutch ancestry.
    Its probably what also spurned on the "kung fu for all" mentality.
     
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  9. V P

    V P New Member

    Bruce Lee achieved more than most people disrespecting on him in this forum. He is also dead, so stop casually disrespecting on dead people. Have some respect.

    *MOD NOTE*
    you agreed to the tos when joining this site , which includes not posting profanity , it really isn’t that hard.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2020
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  10. Dylan9d

    Dylan9d Valued Member

    Damn......

    You just made an account just to say that? Good job haha

    If you can't handle the fact that well known instructors get discussed, maybe you shouldn't lurk around on forums like these.
     
  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That's a bit odd... Bruce Lee made his name in martial arts by disparaging the "dead forms" created by dead people.
     
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    1) yes he did, very much so.
    2) As long as it's respectful, he would probably be in favour of rational enquiry over dead ancestor worship, and knowing Bruce like I don't, even somewhat disrespectfully he would be in favour really.
     
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  13. V P

    V P New Member

    I made an account to ask for a book, I couldn't care less whether you live or die.
     
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    If you want people to show respect, you might find that leading by example is more effective.

    Being a horrible person doesn't tend to inspire respect.
     
  15. Dylan9d

    Dylan9d Valued Member

    Check the bold part in the quote from your first post......

    If you mean that maybe approach certain things differently in the near future......
     
  16. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Yup - as a philosophy major, he would've appreciated the debate. (one would assume based on his interviews)

    Next time try AMAZON.
     
  17. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    As you know, we don't allow profanity on MAP. Please avoid swearing in your posts :)
     
  18. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    FB_IMG_1608897530489.jpg

    The crossover we didn't know we wanted!!
     
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  19. Kemposhot

    Kemposhot Valued Member

    Take my money!
     

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