It's All About the Strength

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Pretty In Pink, Dec 18, 2011.

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  1. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    It would take volumes of books to explain all the levels or stages.

    The first level is body level, which is where everyone starts , physical movement and strength are the main ingredients. The last level is point level ,where every thing happens at one single point of contact without any other body level movements. In between those two are just stages of development working toward the end, you have to complete many different stages each having to be completed before moving on to the next, kind of like stepping stones, you can't skip one before getting to the next one.

    Cheers
     
  2. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    sorry what field of study is this theory from?
     
  3. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    You do understand that your "last level" 1 point contact theory can only apply in the "striking art".

    In the "grappling art" you will need to have 2 or 3 points contact. In the following picture, you can clearly see those 3 contact points:

    1. Pull hand - right hand grab on the wrist (an elbow control is better).
    2. Push hand - left hand push on the neck.
    3. Leg block - left leg block the leg (a horse back kick is better).

    You have to coordinate your pull, push, kick all at the same time. The human body is like 3 separate springs, you need to compress and release all 3 springs at the same time to achieve "body unification". It's not as simple as "one single point of contact without any other body level movements".

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2012
  4. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    Don,t think of everything in one dimension, it's one point per point of contact.

    Don't try to turn everything into semantics.

    Maybe action point would be a another way of describing it, but any which way will mean something different to everyone anyway depending on their level of skill.

    Your picture is still mostly body level technique anyway, and only one dimensional in structure.

    I am not talking about striking, the defense happens at the contact points and offense from same points almost simultaneously .

    Don't dwell on the techniques, you are getting off the track of the main reason why the techniques can work, which is the body integration.

    Cheers
     
  5. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Don't know what you are talking about. What's "body level technique"? What's "only one dimensional in structure"?

    You do understand that besides "words", there are "pictures" and "clips" that you can use to make your point more clear.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2012
  6. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    That would Martial Arts Mechanics, not gymnastics, not weight lifting, not swimming, not running,


    The Grand Ultimate is also used.
     
  7. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    What's "Grand Ultimate"?

    Who is playing with "semantics" here?
     
  8. Wow... this is way above my pay grade! :)


    Rule #1: You never talk about the Grand Ultimate
    Rule #2: ...
    :D


    osu!
     
  9. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Sambo. I'm pretty sure it's sambo.
     
  10. komuso

    komuso Valued Member

    Meh,

    since thus thing is obviously going to keep rumbling along, I'm off for some popcorn. Fish, you want some?

    paul
     
  11. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    Would love to know where YKW finds some of these images.


    Also look what it says "pull HARD"

    Funny that.
     
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Tai chi / systema / aunkai / fake aikijujutsu / bad jkd / sambo are the current options!
     
  13. komuso

    komuso Valued Member

    Pathwalker guild.

    Blatantly going for extra cross thread reference points here.

    paul
     
  14. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

  15. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    It's the British version of taiji-Lou with a vocabulary upgrade posting this.

    Robin, you do know that small joint dislocations and breaks are not fight enders. Anyone with a background in sports can tell you of times they continued to play even though they had broken fingers, noses, stitches and other various injuries. Many times you don't even know that you are injured until the game is over.

    Read police logs or combat history and you will learn about people who have been shot or have other horrific injuries continuing to fight and often winning.

    Enjoy your fantasy fu but don't come to a sports fighter forum to talk about your theories on how effective your beliefs are.

    The difference between theory and practice is a lot less in theory than it is in practice.

    Until you post something with some substance behind it I will continue to view you as another one of those fat, bald men with a pony tail doing compliant drills and empty forms, huffing and puffing from the strain, talking about how efficient and deadly they are.

    You have no credibility here and have done nothing to earn it.

    People who post here who train or have trained in combat sports have credibility because the difference in the gyms where we train is a difference in degree rather than substance.

    In addition you have been arguing, in a very passive-aggressive and smug manner, with current and former members of law enforcement and the military. This is a form of credibility as well.

    What is your background in either law enforcement or the military?

    Like I said earlier, your credibility started at zero and nothing you have posted here so far has changed that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2012
  16. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    i checked up on both of these. neither explains skill learning for a field of study.
    it doesnt matter what kind of physical skill that is, it could be a closed skill like "gymnastics, weight lifting, swimming, running" or an open skill like martial arts or football or Chicken fighting.
    the field of study for skill learning which i was hoping you would say was - psychology.
    There are a couple theories on skill learning (http://www.brianmac.co.uk/tech.htm), all are easy to explain and may be of some use to you to read before you continue this discussion.
    I prefer the Fitts & Posner theory.
    And that only has three levels until internalisation of a skill is reached.
    *Note: None of these explain skill as using no strength but rather performing a smooth action. In fact a fault in a skill is caused by incorrect application of power, therefore a skill uses correct application of power.*

    Please do read some decent material and studies before you start explaining to others about skill learning then maybe you would be able better explain your argument.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2012
  17. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    The term Grand Ultimate I was referencing was along the line of Tai-Chi, but if you google it, people seem to assign it to other things like one other member said.

    You guys keep asking me the questions, I am just trying to answer them in a way that might make sense to you, but trying to describe something that you have not experienced or recognized before, is kind like trying to describe what chocolate tastes like, when you have never tasted it.

    It might be a theory to some of you , but it is not a theory to me. Its only a theory until it is made into reality.

    I really can't expect you to believe me blindly, most people don't, but if you experience it, then you will have a different opiion. Videos or drawing will not change your mind, you need to find someone that can actually demonstrate these things on you so that you can experience it for yourself, then you still won't know what going on, and will try to explains it in your understanding of body level, but that won't work again.

    I have had students that were cops prison guards military, it does matter, the application works because of your ability, actually the more hard force the other guy uses the easier it is to control them.

    Control here is more the name of the game, not supper power or killing strikes, that is just up to your ability to delivery . The control will give you a better chance or opportunity to deliver.

    Sure a small break might not stop someone in a sports match, but in real life it might make someone rethink what is at stake. It reminds me of that Monty Python movie where the guy kept getting his arms and legs cut off and still wanted to continue.

    I did not intend to argue with you guys, I posted a comment months ago on a subject of strength, I really don't look at the category it was in, skills are skills, it works standing up laying down, sitting in a chair, makes no difference.

    But that being said, you guys are actually more in touch with application than the CMA forums. I think that is because you guys understand the importance of control more than strikers do.

    Cheers
     
  18. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    Back to the point concept, maybe "master the point" would be a better analogy,
    and the point could be the contact point, or the pivot point, or the energy point, but being able to move it and control it might make more sense.

    One dimension application is everything is happening in one plane, in the geometry sense.

    But still I am really not talking about the technique its self but the delivery source.

    Cheers
     
  19. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    - 1 dimension is a line (vector).
    - 2 dimension is a plane.
    - 3 dimension is a space.
    - 4 dimension is time travel.
    - 5 dimension is "I see dead people".

    The "front cut" throw is not "2" dimension plane but 3 dimension space.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2012
  20. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    You do not need to experience it to see if it could have veracity - this is just an excuse put out by those who have something to hide

    Noone is asking for your SIN and bank details - just a short resume as to why we should believe a single word you say.

    I'll go quid pro quo -

    LEO since 98, BB in Ju jutsu, Karate, Budo, ROSS, full instructor PFS/JKD, SCT instructor, TAZER instructor.

    Your turn - no answer = troll or liar
     
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