Yes, nice answer by our butterfly friend. Hold on I shouldn't be posting in here. I broke my promise already. Curiosity killed the cat Nothing is permanent in life including promises However let me post here something written by another Daoist in another forum: I’m very impressed with your level of knowledge. I am a student of the author of the Magus of Java, Kostas Danaos. I am also a former Healing Tao Instructor (I became disenchanted with the Healing Tao for various reasons). I would be very interested to know more about your experiences with John Chang, (the subject of the book Magus of Java- I don’t know if you use the same spelling) if you are willing to share. It sounds like you have studied a related system under a different master. Perhaps we can compare notes. On your webpage entitled “Nei Gong and Yin Yang Gong” you describe what seems to be very similar to levels 1 through 5 of the Mo Pai system of neikung. You write that the coupling of yin and yang happens at level 5. Mo Pai neikung practitioners also combine yin and yang at level 5, not level 4 as it’s written in the book. The author writes level 4 to simplify matters for the reader. Does your system follow the same methodology as the Mo Pai system? Do you practice the “thunder path?” If your system is similar, what are the similarities? You also say of the 6 masters who have transmitted this teaching to you 2 have authorized you to transmit the teaching. That’s amazing! I’m curious what level they have reached in this system. I’m assuming you’ve read the Magus of Java. In the book Kostas describes how the practitioner of Mo Pai neikung works to cultivate a solid ball of chi in his Dantien. At level 3 the practitioner begins to cut the “cords” that hold the Dantien in place. The successful student is than able to free his dantien from its immobile state and move it at will. This phenomenon can be felt by the casual observer who places their hand over the practitioner’s abdomen. From what I’m told it feels like a hard ball inside the abdominal region that moves independently. Once the practitioner has done this he moves the now mobile Dantien down to the energy center located at the perineum (I think), thus beginning the process of permanently fusing yin and yang. The force generated by this coupling is explosive and can result in instant death, from what I understand. The power generated is on a par with actual lightning, thus the phrasing “thunder path.” Does this description fit with the methodology of your system? If so are you or any of your teachers at a level where you can move your Dantien at will? I must tell you that I have heard of you from other Healing Tao students and instructors- all good stories. I heard about your website on the Shaolin Wahnam Institute discussion forum from a member there. Lee Holden talked about you quite a bit in his Dao Yin training course. He said he learned a lot from you and also that you taught Mantak Chia some of the practices you teach. Unfortunately, I feel the Healing Tao or Universal Dao, as it is now called, has become a money making venture rather than a authentic system of alchemy (just my opinion). Any information you are willing to share is greatly appreciated. I am more than happy to share information regarding my study with Mo Pai that I am permitted to. I shouldn't post this in here...Sorry.
Full? I think a better question would be "Is your dantian strong?" For one thing, there is no set limit to how much qi your dantian can hold. It doesn't reach a certain point and then just stop. As it becomes stronger it ironically becomes smaller and harder as it concentrates inward. Saying "is your dantian full?" to me is like saying, "is your heart full?" The dantian is a qi conduit, not a storehouse. You don't just pile up qi there and save it for winter. You accustom it to holding and moving larger and larger amounts of qi until it always has a fair amount of qi in it. This doesn't mean it is the same qi. Qi must be constantly expelled and replaced like air in the lungs. Of course, when you're first learning to open up the renmai and dumai, a common technique is filling the dantian as much as possible before attempting circulation as larger amounts of qi will do a better job of opening up the vessels. Nonetheless, the dantian is certainly not like some kind of gas tank with a set size limit. I personally have found no connection between the frequency of sex and my ability to fill my dantian and practice Qi-gong... I can't say with 100% certainty, but I think that whole idea is just wrong... either that or the effect it has is so negligible that regular Qi-gong practice will easily offset it. The Daoists have discovered many amazing things, but a website that Gerard referred to says that some Daoists also drink their own urine through their noses... so I wouldn't believe everything you read about Daoism wholesale.
Agree 100% with first part of your post btw... This is a long-term problem that does not become apparent until you hit middle age. Incorrect sexual practice in males (complex subject and I don't have time today... lol) depletes pre-natal qi and shortens life, also causes whithering of all essential and physical aspects in the long term. Learning to preserve your jing by either abstinence, correct sexual techniques or moving energy out of the seminal fluids prior to discharge will stop any long-term problems with this and can actually be a path in itself. The post-natal qi can be regularly replaced by qigong etc but pre-natal qi can only be replaced by very specialised techniques over long periods of time. That's why you are not noticing the depletion - it is like a leak way below the waterline and only becomes apparent once the ship actually begins to sink... lol I've heard of drinking urine, but never snorting it - I sometimes wonder if these ideas were tricks played on young adepts... lol
Pre vs. Post-natal Qi...? So what is the difference between the two... I know that sometimes the "natural" breath is called the "natal" breath because it is how infants breath, as opposed to the "daoyin" breath (lower abdomen expands on exhalation), which is sometimes called the "pre-natal" breath--I assumed because the sucking inward of the dantian on inhalation was reminiscent of the way a fetus takes in nutrients through the umbilical cord. But are there two different kinds of Qi with the same names? I mean the usual qi we intake, release and circulate is all natal qi...? What then is the pre-natal qi? Where is it? What can be done with or to it? How? Do regular qi-gong exercises not affect it?
I'll attempt to answer...(Well in theory anyway...)Pre-natal qi is received from your parents and the universe during conception/gestation, it creates your original and essential jing(essence), builds your body and determines your longevity - ie when it's gone, so are you! lol I think this is slightly incorrect imo - 'Post-natal' breathing actually refers to 'air breathing' (ie the way we breathe once we are out of our mother's womb) and 'pre-natal' to where the air breath is minimised and we absorb vital energy directly into the dantien and meridian system through the navel channel and/or from all directions into the lower centre. This can be done with the physical motion of either 'reverse' or 'natural' breathing - I would find it easier with the 'natural' one personally. Reverse breathing favours other qigong practices, particularly martial art enhancing processes and is not directly a longevity practice as it runs counter to the natural flow of the breathing. (For very good reasons, of course lol) So the 'breathing' is really about whether we are doing physical/external (air) breathing or psychic/internal (qi) breathing. Qi is qi. It does operate at different frequencies though. So it is really the way the body holds/uses the qi that defines it. Pre-natal qi is like a ticking clock that determines our natural lifespan and vitality. We give it away to procreate and create life and it shortens our own. Taoists developed techniques of preserving, transforming and rebuilding this qi to extend life in their quests for immortality/longevity. This may be superstition, but I see evidence of its long-term effects in people I know and myself. Yup. Our pre-natal qi is limited, post-natal qi is freely available but has to be correctly alchemised to lengthen life and heal major diseases etc. Post-natal qi comes in and out of us all the time. Pre-natal is limited and is of us and to an extent actually is us. It's our timeclock - our universal bungee cord - the physical connection to our parent's DNA... Tough question. Generally it is part of our energetic structure so it can be in all sorts of places - mainly lower dantien and sexual organs/fluids (testes/ovaries and seminal fluids) but also to an extent in the marrows and essential fluids of the body. The important point is if it is depleted it is difficult to get back and we will decline as a result in the long term. It can be preserved and alchemised into higher frequencies to create Shen and/or an immortal spirit body. It can be preserved to prolong life for spiritual practice Through internal qigong, neigong and Taoist Yoga combined with alchemical techniques taught by a master - read Taoist Yoga, Alchemy and Immortality by Lu Kuan Yu Only in a limited way. Qigong commonly taught is an external version of the earlier practices with a less powerful internal aspect. Correct meditation and lifestyle is a requirement of which qigong is only a part. Hope that answers your questions - I am neither expert or master at this just an interested party :Angel:
I am skeptical... I must say I'm still pretty skeptical about the so-called "pre-natal" qi as I have never felt it (or at least not recognized it as such) myself. Of course, I've generally found that when I doubt ancient Chinese wisdom I usually turn out to be wrong... I even doubted the existence of qi itself until I had been practicing Qi gong to the point that its existence, whatever it is, became undeniable. Therefore, I'm also skeptical of the so-called "pre-natal" qi until I can feel some evidence of it myself. As far as I can tell, the qi that flows to the reproductive areas just feels like the same qi that can flow to my arms but in a different place. Is there any way to "feel" your pre-natal qi in order to know what state it is in? Are you sure this pre-natal qi is the same as the qi we usually talk about, or might it not be a construct designed to explain the cycle of life and death? I wonder if Daoists can alter their sperm-count at will...
Hi Onyomi - this is the problem. Human being is not sensitive enough to feel pre-natal qi as it is part of who they are. You only notice when it is going and gone, by which time it is too late to do much about it. I assure you there is more evidence of its reality than its falsehood ime It is not as obvious as post-natal qi. there may be ways to feel it but I do not know them. As I said before it is not the same, it is a different function and frequency. It is a subtle force that acts over decades. I trust the Taoists on this. Tried and trusted methods, but supressed historically which is why they are not as widely known as they should be. It's up to you I guess. But don't worry we all physically die in the end, even the immortals lol Best regards :Angel:
We all die, even the conscious immortals who are roaming free in eternity, whereas us the non-conciously immortals are still trapped in Samsara, scared of losing Yin power.
Quick question Could you give the link to forum which the daotist was on so maby i could contact him i have a big Question!?! Thanks
Could you give me the link to the forum the daotist was on so maby i cold contact him i have a big question!?!
Go here: http://wongkiewkit.com/forum/search.php?do=process And type in there: Magus of Java. You'll find your answer in the thread: The Magus of Java. However, I warn you give up anything that is related to learning MoPai. No one will help you or others that are seeking this type of training. Better seek elsewhere, there are many masters scattered all across Asia which have very high qigong development and very capable of impossible feats. Is qi power real? For instance: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JYGqVA9xc4"]Qi,move things without touch!believe it? - YouTube[/ame] In that page you'll find some vids of John Chang himself. Bye.
I've read that "Magus of Java" book. It is all nonsense - evil, deceptive nonsense. You don't have to take my word for it, but I know (I've been through the whole energetic transmission stuff), and it all boils down to exploitation and unhealthy and evil spiritual practices. All of it will steer you away from both martial and spiritual fulfilment. http://www.martialtaichi.co.uk/articles/trouble_with_qi.php You know, sometimes, people think "I agree with her on all the qi stuff, but why does she have to go on about the spiritual side - all that stuff about evil?" Well, the anger people feel when hearing those words is because they are themselves drawn more towards the darkness than the light. Many people do not only disbelieve in God, they also hate Him and anyone who believes in Him. That anger just gets worse until you can genuinely accept that people who believe in God have a right to do so. You could even entertain the possibility that instead of most of the world's inhabitants being deluded brainwashed fools, the small minority of disbelievers may actually be the ones who have got it all wrong. That's it from me on this subject.
This is silly... and I'm sorry to be so blunt but it is. People don't disagree with you about the religious aspect to your posts because they are 'drawn towards darkness' or because they don't think people have a right to believe. They disagree because they don't believe in the supernatural beliefs and deity you have chosen and because when you base your arguments on such beliefs they are often based more on faith, personal belief and circular reasoning than on coherent and convincing logical argument. Arguing from what the majority of people believe is for example a flimsy argument... one which you would rebuke TCM practitioners for using I believe if it suited your argument. I have to say jkzorya that it seems to me that you apply quite a double standard in your skepticism. This does not mean that I think anyone skeptical cannot be religious, I simply think many of the arguments you present in defence of your religious position are basically the exact same as the arguments you are criticising TCM and the like for using yet you fail to acknowledge it.
I think they sound the same to people who disregard the spiritual dimension and lump all religious and spiritual experiences in together. Many religious people would differentiate between the genuine and the fake in this respect - those things that are divine in origin and the things which are a product of self-delusion and self-aggrandisement. The latter things are man-made, and aim to create an intellectual and spiritual hierarchy with human beings at the top. A great number of religious people through the ages have done this too, of course. So religion is not the answer per se - I think the majority of religious people probably get it wrong, just as the majority in every field probably get it wrong. But to renounce the religious dimension entirely is not the answer, not least because you then alienate so many millions of people. To attempt to do so, would be like renouncing science per se, just because it had made mistakes and been abused (I'm thinking of nuclear bombs, eugenics, napalm etc.) So I think that the answer lies not in insisting that God does not exist, in the sense of a purpose or moral direction for the universe, but in continuing dialogue about what God is and what He wants, given the situation that so many people experience divinity in their lives. On this issue though, the magicians are in firm opposition to other religious viewpoints, by taking a morally neutral or morally relative stance - one that most religions would consider to be self-serving and therefore, evil. There can be no morally acceptable reason for trying to manipulate spirits, seek spirit possession, or try to cultivate hidden magical powers. People who try to become "spiritually higher" beings, see themselves as exempt from the morality that others live by. They become tainted by ego and pride. In the spiritual dimension, as anywhere, power corrupts. The danger for atheists is that they cannot argue for sure that magic is wrong, because in a morally relative universe, there is no way of ascertaining right from wrong. Consequently, magicians are often seen as harmless cranks and allowed to go about their business, and the danger here is in the growing numbers of minds that get sucked in and corrupted by it - driven mad, or driven to commit immoral acts. Yes that happens in mainstream religion too, but it shouldn't, and it does also happen in science and in atheism - just look at the persecution of religious people by the atheist dictators of the 20th Century. There too, people could renounce politics entirely, but that could not work either. Nothing is a simple as abolishing an entire branch of science, be it natural, physical, social, political or religious. I know others will disagree and maybe start throwing things in to the pot about how the Christians did this or the Jews did that, or the Muslims are doing the other - I am not trying to condone any atrocity that people have committed in the name of any religion or ideology, and I think the responsibility always lies with the human beings themselves. When evil is done - when an action is not in the interests of the greater good - you can be certain that it is only ever in spite of God, whatever the perpetrators say. I'm sorry if it sounds silly to you, or if it sounds like a double standard. I don't see it that way, and it isn't because I haven't thought it through. I'm just not another religion-hating, atheist fundamentalist. My objection is coming from another angle.
I was full, but I'm starting to feel a bit empty again. Must be time for a bit more fruitcake. I put double the normal quantity of almonds in this batch. Mmmm.
