Is this weight training?

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by LilBunnyRabbit, Aug 30, 2013.

  1. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    So first off, I don't go to a gym or use exercise equipment as such. All of my exercise comes from running and practice.

    That said I'm curious if something counts as weight training, and what it would be equivalent to. One of the sports/martial arts I practice is archery. I shoot about three times a week, for several hours. In that time I'd estimate I'll loose somewhere around 300 arrows (maybe a few more, maybe less).

    The bow I use for this is a longbow, 52lb pull. Arrows are loosed in sets of 6 before retrieval. If I'm tired, I'll switch down to a 30lb bow, and I'm thinking of moving up to a heavier bow as the 52lber gets easier and easier, and leaves me less tired.

    Now what I'd like to know is whether this is somehow comparable/equivalent to weightlifting reps? It's out of curiousity more than anything else.
     
  2. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    It would most likely transfer into doing single arm dumbbell rows and single arm cable rows on the hand the pulls the string back. You would also probably end up being stronger in the stabilizing hand in the final portion or movement of any shoulder exercise (military press, bench press).

    It's not conventional weight training and you're probably developing a bit of an imbalance in strength/endurance in your muscles. Not sure if you're ambidextrous with the bow but it would be smart to shoot as many with one side as the other.

    Any benefit you may get in the 'weight training' sense won't transfer over to its full extent in the weight room though, just like the weight room isn't going to transfer over to pulling the string on a bow right away (this isn't to say the 'transfer of ability' isn't going to happen a lot faster than it would for most). It's a totally different load on the nervous system and that has to adapt to whichever movement you're doing.

    In martial arts however, if you're trying to throw somebody off balance with upper body strength you would probably do well pulling with the draw hand and pushing with the stabilizing hand : P
     
  3. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    I'm not ambidextrous with the bow (as in I'm not as accurate with both hands, nor as strong) but I do alternate between shoots for this exact reason.

    Thanks - as I said it was more curiousity than anything. Since I'm not planning to go into the weight room, and my main aim is to get better at drawing a bow rather than lift heavy things, it's reassuring to know. One thing I am curious about though is whether I'd be more likely to benefit from doing some form of weight lifting, or simply getting a heavier bow (I've been considering making something around the 80lb range for my next)?

    Katniss has nothing on me. ;)
     
  4. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    You would certainly benefit from doing a few basic barbell exercises to make that transition to an 80lb bow a lot easier as well as evening out your body in push/pull strength. Barbell rows, bench press, and military presses would be great to do. You could get more technical and start adding in single arm exercises (basically all the same lifts I just mentioned, but single arm w/ dumbbell) but I don't think you would have to do that to get major benefits.

    Some core work, especially planks and unbalanced planks (ex: being hold a plank position, extend right arm and left leg, hold for time, switch) would help in maintaining posture while shooting the bow as well which would probably transfer over to accuracy.

    All in all the best way to get better at shooting a bow is just to shoot it, like anything else really repetition is key. Weight training seems like it would make the transition to a heavier bow quicker and easier as well as give some other benefits that you would have to train on the bow a lot longer for (endurance).

    If I ever find myself in a Hunger Games situation I'll make sure to kill you first sir.
     
  5. Princess Haru

    Princess Haru Valued Member

    I think weight training would help, provided you included some mobility stuff too. I started on a 32lb bow at 11 and think my last one (as a teenager) was around 38lb. It wouldn't be unusual to shoot 100 arrows in a session
     
  6. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    On a visit to a castle a few years ago, we were told by an expert from english Heritage that medieval English longbowmen would have a massively over-developed right arm, from putting in hours of practise. In fact, if you didn't start at a fairly young age then you couldn't just take up the longbow in adult life and quickly reach the required standard for battle, because you just wouldn't be strong enough. (I don't know what size bows they used back then.)

    It wouldn't just develop your right arm though (or your left if you were a 'southpaw') but the muscles in your back too. Just drawing an imaginary bow makes my powerful back muscles ripple provocatively. ;)
     
  7. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Ah, I can help with this one. :)

    Yep - some of the skeletons they've found of professional bowmen (bear in mind that the professionals would be doing a lot more training than everyone else in the country, who still legally had to practice at least once a week from the age of 11 upwards) have massively deformed skeletons.

    I did in fact hear (though I can't find a definite study) that over the millenia it's even entered our DNA - with the average left arm bones being 1mm thicker than the right in people with a long bow-using heritage.

    There are arguments about the weights of the bows concerned - I've heard numbers from 90lb up to 200lb bows. A 90lb (or even up to 120lb) is within the capabilties of most people with enough training, but I'd dread to see the person who can pull a 200lb.

    Of course these are longbows or recurves, compound bows are a different matter (and are cheating, no matter what people say).

    I can say that I can definitely feel it the day after a heavier than usual shoot, not just in my arm, or in the other arm from string rash, but across everything upwards of the waist. Legs too (field archery involves a lot of walking).
     
  8. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Hello.
    Yes. You're doing a pyramid basically. Reps with a heftier poundage for sets. Drop to a lighter poundage. Do more reps with lighter poundage.

    When you progress to a heftier bow you've tapped the principle of 'progressive resistance'. You now 'lift' heavier.

    I don't do Archery. But I do do 'Archer's Pulls' as part of my Strand-Pulling (Expanders) sessions. Same action as drawing a bow.

    The 'Archer's Pull' is one of the best all-round upper body exercises you'll find (done as a push n pull on both sides).

    I do sets of 12, 10, 8 etc at 240 lbs of resistance. And am getting some heftier expanders in the autumn (300 lb plus).

    The really hefty Welsh and English bows of the middle ages were up to 300 lbs resistance. The Welsh often used them as close-range guerilla warfare weapons. Sometimes loosing at close-range (20 yards or so). As well as long-range.

    I don't know if I could actually 'pull' a real bow of that top resistance yet. Wood and gut must be really different in feel to latex expander cables.

    I remember reading in Robert Hardy's Book about the Longbow that the biggest war bows on the Mary Rose (sunk galleon) were around 300 lb'ers. That takes a significant amount of all body strength.

    Good Luck
     
  9. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Well I'd say archery is resistance training.

    Similar to deformed skeletons of pro bow men, I remember natural history channel had a documentary on gladiators showing greater amount of development, lopsided even, like a tennis player.

    Structural balance wise, that volume will add up.
    You might want to add some lifting for long term development such as pressing work and limiting strength work by using your weak hand first and limiting reps.
    Just an hour a week would be good enough
     
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

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