Is this chi?

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by travelguy90, Jul 20, 2011.

  1. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    ...a chocolate one?
  2. Black41

    Black41 Click Clack Blaow!

    He's from Germany so I think you would find more of his peer reviewed published articles there. He has a couple of books written in German.

    He studied studied medicine (1969-1975) and psychology (1975-1979) in Freiburg, Germany, completing his PhD on the involvement of the autonomic nervous system in autoimmune disorders (seems to be his big thing). His physics teacher was the famous Hans Bethe (, he's also worked with prominent people in the field such as the psychologist Milton Erickson ( and Fritz Albert Popp known for his biophoton theory (

    He was the Medical Director at USA's largest pain center, Santa Fe Pain Centre. This is where he realized the shortcomings of western medicine and it's ability to treat chronic disease. He has also lectured at many universities around USA and Germany. Has 3 offices, Germany, Sussex, USA.

    I have some of his DVD's which I don't know how I would share them, do you know of a way online? File size is aprox 1 GB each. I don't know if he's published articles in USA, so videos would be the closest thing you could check out about his methods of healing.
  3. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    Break them down into ten minute segments with Windows Movie Maker and then upload them onto you tube.You might have to convert the WMM format into FLV.
  4. Black41

    Black41 Click Clack Blaow!

    I had thought about it but I wonder about the copyright issue. Also the videos are focused more around healing chronic illness rather than getting into the energy and "chi" side of things. For matters about energy there is a book that had gotten pretty good reviews by the science community as a critical study of energy medicine. Perhaps it would be good neutral book to read, I haven't read it yet though, found it recommended on a skeptics site about energy medicine as a good choice for an impartial look at energy healing:

    [ame=""]Energy Medicine: The Scientific Basis[/ame]

    Or there is the video "The Living Matrix" where many experts are featured. From the skeptic view they say this video failed to provide links to published articles on their website, non the less, I thought it was interesting to watch and people studying qigong will find it useful.

    You can find the whole video on Youtube here:
    The Living Matrix
  5. Taiji_Lou

    Taiji_Lou Banned Banned

    Hey man, what's that?

    Again, if you're actually interested in learning the exercises to see physical manifestations of ch'i send me a polite pm asking me for the technique and I will gladly respond.
  6. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    Copyright might be an issue.

    The video link you posted looks very interesting as does the book.I had a brief look at its contents on Amazon and it seems to cover the entire field of alternative therapies.I doubt if myofascial release could be called an energetic therapy as its is easy to demonstrate using a simple physical test and the results seem to be the same with everyone who is tested.
  7. Taiji_Lou

    Taiji_Lou Banned Banned

    myofascial release is not an energy therapy
  8. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    This clip might help counter some of the antics seen on the previous clips I posted.The demonstrator is the late Wang Peisheng who was generally regarded as the top tai chi master in China.He had an excellent reputation as a fighter and fought both private and public challenge matches and defeated several top Japanese martial artists.The beauty of this clip is that he explains exactly what he is doing,including the brief piece of no contact work.

    [ame=""]Wang Peisheng discusses push hands 王培生推手 - YouTube[/ame]

    Of course people will say the usual about compliant opponents but in my experience being non compliant makes the effect even worse as it allows the opponent to get through your shoulders and access your feet.Going on the translation it would seem he is using very advanced martial skills coupled with Derren Brown type trickery.He said he confused the opponents mind by pointing at him and didn't say anything about affecting his chi.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2011
  9. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

    Being non-compliant doesn't mean being rigid or forceful. It means that you do your best to put your opponent (in this case) off balance.
  10. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    Any suggestions how you would do it against that sort of man? Considering he is a master of unbalancing people its unlikely he would allow himself to be put in that situation.
  11. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

    Get him drunk? :dunno:

    A friend of mine that was teaching me push hands once told me something a long the lines that you've got to know how make moves, and then as you get better you've got to know the reversals of those moves and then the reversals of those reversals, and so on.
  12. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    I think option one is the only one that would work.;)

    A few years ago I did push hands with a Chinese guy who had a similar skill level to the man in the clip.It was almost as if he coulde read my mind.He obviously couldn't but later told me he could feel my feet as it they were an extension of his own body.Not through chi but rather being so sensitive to the slightest movement.
  13. Black41

    Black41 Click Clack Blaow!

    Thanks for this post. I've always been skeptical of such performances but as he explains the process I can tell what is taking place and is a new window to look through in the art of kung fu. I've seen other performances where they talk about intent of the mind, also some saying it's chi. So whether one is saying that it is chi or mind tricks, the method of practice is essentially the same, it must originate in the mind.

    Looking at it holistically, whether one is saying it is taking place on a purely physical level, mental level or energetic level, doesn't really matter, it takes place on all levels simultaneously. If someone uses "chi" (subjective feeling), perhaps thats what makes sense to them, if someone says mind, they are also right, if another says pure body mechanics, also true. What we do know though is that the actions originate in the mind.

    Studying the mind, the conscious mind is only aware of aprox 110 bits of information a second and can only process one thought at a moment. The subconscious is aware of millions of bits information a second and has much neuronal activity taking place. So what's affecting us is largely subconscious, we can only guide awareness to certain areas. This would also explain how mind tricks would work as the subconscious is easily suggestible if you know the methods, blow right pass the conscious mind.
  14. Taiji_Lou

    Taiji_Lou Banned Banned

    Best explaination of no hands push hands I've ever come across.

    I still say it's ch'i, though~~!
  15. Black41

    Black41 Click Clack Blaow!

    I know there is much that can be done with tricks of the mind - Derren Brown for example. (hypnosis, nlp, and whatever else he does) Some of it just seems impossible but I guess he has credibility.

    For chi, I think there is much that can be accomplished. There has been many things that I've doubted, but from personal experience, realized. I'm usually pretty skeptical going into something but willing to explore it to see if it leads to anything. But I found this on Ripley's Believe it or Not.

    I know many will say it can be easily done with illusion tricks and such, that of course is a possibility, but it is simply one answer. But lets just suppose here that he is using only chi, could this really be possible without damaging any area of the body. Is there any such cases of people surviving such extreme near boiling point temperatures, say in traumatic experience like falling into Mt. Vesuvius :hail: or simmering in Old Faithful. :evil:

    [ame=""]Qigong Master Demonstrates Pyrokinesis - YouTube[/ame]
  16. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    So...he's got his hands on some bichloride of mercury? Nothing impressive about that. Give me some and I could do the same.

    Why should we suppose that he's only using chi? Notice that the infrared camera only showed the aluminium heating, nothing heating the air between his hands and the aluminium, no sign of extreme heat from his hands except where he'd touched the aluminium, no energy passing between his hands to the aluminium at all.

    The fact that he's using aluminium at all is the clue here - ask him to do the same demonstration with steel foil - just steel, and water you've pulled from the tap yourself. If it's magic then he should be able to do it - after all the ancients didn't have aluminium foil.

    Ripley's Believe it or Not is not the best source for a thorough examination of anything.
  17. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    Could you show the clips of his public challenge matches?

  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Proof that it is largely smoke and mirrors


    Derren actually does it BETTER than the so-called Masters
  19. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    I don't know if any were filmed.You could contact the Northern Wu style tai chi association in Beijing and see if they have any footage.

    Likewise I have never seen any footage of Steve Morris's challenge matches in the seventies but I don't doubt his claims for one minute despite not having video evdience.Certain people have a valid reputation and you never hear anyone doubting their abilty as a competent fighter.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2011
  20. Black41

    Black41 Click Clack Blaow!

    Yeah I've seen that one before, I thought I had already mentioned it, the Derren Brown mind tricks. Derren Brown pulling it off is still remarkable. So whether you are saying it's attacking his thoughts or chi, the subject is still reporting a subjective feeling as "can you feel this" when he is behind him. How it all works? Would have to ask Derren. How he explains it, mind tricks. I've noticed some of his other tricks he does involves concepts that come straight out of the "energy arts", such as tapping the third eye on the forehead.

    But it's interesting to note that what Derren Brown does is often considered pseudoscience, but some how he is supposed to be more credible because he only talks about the mind. So from a purely scientific level you might say hogwash! But seeing results you now believe. What's the difference between what I've seen and experienced and what you have? Both areas, so far, are scientifically inconclusive.

    LilbunnyRabbit wrote:
    I was suspecting things like that. I noticed that when he touched the steaming cloth that it turned his hand a hotter color then faded. Where you think that it would heat his whole hand if he was projecting chi. As far as what I've encountered in chi, there has never been anything that has come to such extremes, it's more of a subtle energy. Like my momma always told me, "you can't believe everything on TV". I've seen on Tv in China some guy that claimed his body was impenetrable to a heavy duty construction drill because of his "chi". Drills to the forehead, stomach, back - bam! Superman.

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