Is Tae Kwon Do actually "useless" against other styles?

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Fluidz, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Honestly SW, they don't. Try the experiment yourself. Go look on Youtube at the early videos. TKD kicks do not look at all like Taekkyon kicks, they look like Shotokan kicks. TKD movement does not look like Taekkyon movement, it looks like Shotokan movement.

  2. spaxl13

    spaxl13 New Member

    I have studied martial arts for twenty odd years and I have realised a block is a block a punch is a punch a kick is a matter what style you do....its finding the style you feel you can get along with..and what style compliments you most. Effectiveness comes from the application of the user and applying what you have learnt in practice and having the confidence to defend yourself if needed. I love taekwondo and its discipline. Go for it!
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  3. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Taekkyon looks far more like Northern Chinese Kung Fu than TKD.
  4. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    I have been aware of much criticism of a lot of the bouncy up & down movements of SW.
    Does anyone want to inject that this SW movement bears more resemblance to Taek Kyon than say the linear movement some often associate with the movement of some karate styles or systems?
  5. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Internal power generation methods (which is ultimately what the sine wave is) are present in Okinawan Karate, so you must assume they were also in Japanese Karate in the 30s and 40s (when Choi learned it) and were phased out as the aesthetics changed.
  6. ShadowHawk

    ShadowHawk Valued Member

    When I used to just box as a young teen I got into a fight with a kid that did TKD and when I went in to lay into him, boom dropped by a kick to my temple/eye. We were actually friends me and him, he was able to do full splits so he had killer flex then.

    I stayed stubborn and kept boxing untill I discovered Thai boxing.
  7. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Only superficially I think. The classic "one two three" of Taekkyon stepping for example seems entirely lacking even in the heavily SW influenced versions of TKD. Just my observation though, I have no direct experience of Taekkyon and little first hand with SW as it is now practiced :)

  8. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    There is little to no influence of Taek Kyeon in Taekwondo. Some people would like to reverse engineer it in to try to pass off Taekwondo as a "4000 year old martial art". If you look at the surviving examples of Taek Kyeon and compare it to TKD, the mechanics are very different.

    One of General Choi's interviews on video (I have it somewhere - I will look up the title) - he mentions that he only learned 'one or two movemenst' of Taek Kyeon.

    Now, the sine wave thing is a whole other deal. The Taekwondo I have studied comes from pre-sine wave Oh Doh Kwan and from the WTF style, so we don't have it. Personally, I like the concept and can see where very subtle use of it can increase power. But I cringe when I see the ITF practitioners bouncing up and down trying to move. I just can't seem to see it as part of TKD.
  9. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I understand the need to be "historically correct". That said, as with any history (esp martial arts where people think older is better), there are some truths which play havoc on the reality of certain groups.
  10. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    I see,
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  11. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    I see. Yes I agree with the 1, 2, 3 stepping. I was meaning to focus on the flexing of the knees during the Taek Kyon movements, I also have 0 experience with Taek Kyon, except looking at the classic collectors book awhile back.
    But I have seen online videos & noticed right away the flexing of the knee joints that give them that bouncy up & down movement. We also have an emphasis on the flexing of the knees when we try to use the "knee spring properly" when performing SW.
    So tbh it did strike me as a similarity between the two Korean Arts.
  12. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Agreed & I saw that same video. I cringe now when I think why didn't they follow it up with another question, lime why did you say different earlier on & why do your books emphasize tour training in it, if you were only told stories, taught a couple of moves, etc????????!!!!!!!!
    I love the interview of GM LEE Chong Woo, perhaps the most influential &/or important Kukki TKD man ever! When he was asked about the silly story about TKD ancient longevity he owned right up to it, saying he was the one that came up with the lies & they needed to hide the hated Japanese karate connection. Then he exclaimed we no longer have to do that, as TKD was on top of the world!
    (I am paraphrasing)

    Yes it was not TKD to me either when I was 1st exposed to it. But once I understood the concept, where, when, how & why it fits into TKD, it is not really TKD to me without it!
  13. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Please forgive me for my ignorance in this area, but I would like for you to clarify. By SW I mean the vertical up & down movement of the hips that is emphasized in ITF TKD.*
    Are you stating that Okinawan Karate had/has this principle?
  14. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    It's a more subtle whole body movement, but yes. It's the standard method of power generation in the Chinese shorthand arts that Karate is descended from, and I've certainly seen it in footage of Okinawan masters.
  15. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    I may be wrong, but in a certain Dr. Kimm interview, didnt he say it was a 'one, two' step and that karate had a "one two three" step, relating to 'attack, block, counter' and he summised it was similar to WTF TKD comp style sparring where they use 'attack, counter' missing out the blocking part!!

  16. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    Knew Id seen it somewhere. posting the link would be cool, thanks.

  17. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    Same as boxers when they move around the ring!!!! Boxings older then TKD, so in theory, it was exported there first, if simple flexing of the knee is the thing!

    No offence, but the 'static' (New) sine-wave which has the knee bend/flex is a far cry from the 'free' bouncing movement found in Taek-Kyon IMO

    Again is a case of the connection is 'Korea' therefore there maybe/is a connection.. but thats the only link... there is no real link IMO.

    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  18. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    If I`m correct, its known as 'wave form' in other arts! Arts which predate TKD!

  19. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    I think its a big stretch to say that SW is internal power generation.
  20. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    It's internal power generation done very badly. It's like someone once saw it and had it explained to them and then tried to have a go.

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