Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Fluidz, Oct 13, 2012.
No he hasn't - reread it
I don't mean in this particular message I mean the very first post; read above
Sorry, I thought we were having a serious discussion here!
Perhaps I should have been more explicit. Yes, taek-Kyon was all but considered died out during the occupation by Japan.. of which Gen choi was born in to.. its resurrengence was/is said to be because of Master Song. If he went underground and stayed there, how could Gen choi have learnt it.. maybe his later version was correct (that he saw a few bits as a child)! He spent a lot of his life in japan during the occupation, learning karate. GM Song died at the end of WW2 AFAIA..
Why i dont disagree with this notion, the FACT that gen choi changed his story may give an inkling to things!!!
Well, this is true (except for the above bit), but if you look at 1955 TKD.. its looked very Karate like and not a bit Taek-Kyon like IMO!
Sorry, too late, too tired... what are you refering to?
I`m off to bed, will try and pick this up tomorrow.
Well look, since we both agree that the secret died with the masters and neither one of us has a DEFINITE answer i believe the only option is to agree to disagree but I would say aswell that after General Choi left Korea he fell out with the South Korean government and they attempted assassination attempts against him as well as slandering him. So the truth is whilst politics may have influenced the positive view of general choi it has also affected the negative view (which I would suggest has left the argument impossible to untangle because there are even some who suggest that he was not even the founder of taekwondo)
Hell, the taekwondo I learned in the early 1980s was essentially karate with a stronger emphasis on kicking.
Well.. the definitive answer was with Gen Choi and as I said, he changed his story about it over time, to the point of saying that he saw his caligraphy master throw a few kicks as a kid... I`m not sure of the exact wording (perhaps TKDStudent will know), but thats a big turn-around and saying that means it can't be put across as a big fat lie, as theres 'some' tiny element of Taek-kyon involved in the story.
Sure, but I`ve never heard them say anything about his connection to Taek-kyon.. they simply tried to erase him from the history of TKD altogethor.. but failed in the end.
Well based on research, his own books, others research and those around him at the time etc. Its quite easy to make a pretty positive assumption I`d say.. and whilst you are correct, we will never know for 100% as Gen Choi passed away and his last version was the one I mention AFAIK.. most of it all points in a single direction and its not in the direction of Taek-Kyon Im afraid, as romantic a notion it may have been once!
Karate has the knife edge side kick too mate. Put down the cool-aid and look at some other arts before making such black and white statements.
From a personal perspective twisting the foot into the knife egde side kick is structurally weaker than aligning the foot into the heel/sole position.
Try jumping off a chair with both feet in the "knife edge first" position and see how happy you feel landing on the floor.
Now try it in a more natural position.
If you were going to stamp down and break a piece of wood (a side kick being a horizontal stamp) you wouldn't stamp down with the foot in a twisted position.
I think the knife edge side kick is an example of a theory that seems sound (smaller surface area = more damage) that falls down when you apply it to actual people.
That's not to say you can't break with a knife egde side kick or kick with power using it but it's not because it has more potential than doing it with the foot more naturally aligned.
Savate fighters have a low side kick and they don't feel the need to twist their feet into a weird position to land it effectively.
I should review all the posts where I get called on being a miserable old sod only to be proven correct about a page and a half later! :evil:
Can't knock that policeman's intuition
I am not sure about the whole foot position thing but having broken both ways though 4"+ of wood its definitely easier to break wood in a foot sword position that just with the sole of the foot. What I don't know if whether its as much down to the mechanics of wood (and how it breaks with the grain) as it is to do with surface area/force dissipation of the foot.
Now you're just rubbing it in.
Also remember that boards have significantly less mass than a torso.
Pluss they don't get really mad and try to kill you.
This is just drivel.
That type of kick exist in karate, jujutsu, even ninjutsu. Pretty much every Japanese art that includes kicking in some form, has that particular kick.
And you are claiming this is unique to TKD?
Sometimes it takes more pages than that
Ok look you have claimed that General Choi changed his story can I see the evidence for that please and when I say evidence I mean directly from him.
Yes I am as far as I am aware Taekwondo was the first to use this positioning and I have been to a different Karate schools and seen that they do not put emphasis on what part of the foot is used. If you know different can you give me the specific Japanese term for a knife edge foot position.
Does he seem like the most likely candidate to point out his own contradictions?
Well thats what i have been told repeatedly look above. But the thing is i'm just saying that noone truly knows because the secret died with him
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