Ever notice any MMA practitioners giving credit to the system or founder? Ever notice MMA promoting individual systems rather then mixture of systems? Is the name or term Mixed Martail Arts, a form of plagarism? - Just for debate...
nope, it's a sport, not a style. the training for said sport involves MA training from various sources, hance mma, and some places just teach the common basics rather than/along with individual styles. no plagiarism there.
It is plagiarism and that's the point lol I think though in MMA it's not so much the roots/styles that make the difference it's how they are adapted to MMA. It's the trade off between all the styles each persons game is built on that makes it distinct and of course whatever individual adaptations they bring with them.
when will mma take over all tma and combine them all under one ruler? jk... It is no no more plagiarism than reading an article and retelling it in your own words. It's not like mma is doing a segall and claiming the front kick as their own invention
Yes, the Gracies, gave total credit to the founder of their art, after that it was pretty much a haze of wrestlers.
What does it matter if you can use it better than whomever you stole it from? When in Rome... steal their tech and tactics, use it to conquer them and anyone else you please, and laugh gloriously. I don't often quote Ip Man but this seems relevant: "There is no difference in who started to study first; the one who achieves accomplishment is first. "
I'd disagree, since Plagarism is defined as "taking or claiming something that's not your original creation"...... If you look at many MMA courses, they use the terms Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, Boxing, Wrestling, in their training. However, they don't give credit to those systems founders, history, or even remotely give that information to their practitioners. For example, If I took something out of a book and used in as a quote during a presentation and never gave that author of that quote credit (name, resource, etc) then I'd be guilty of Plagarism. Mixed Martial Arts does the same, it takes from systems without giving credit to those systems or founders. Mixed Martial Arts is really a title to describe training for cage fighting, and yes Gracies gave their Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu credit to the Jiu-Jitsu Founders, however Gracies aren't responsible for taking Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, Boxing, etc... combining them and calling it something else!! And actually that's not true with MMA claiming something as their own. Rear Naked Choke, Triangle Choke, and Arm Bar have all been claimed by the MMA industry as their own creations. I'd agree that MMA is sport and not an actual system (although many would dispute), but regardless, if you're taking systems, combining them together without credit and calling it something else, it's plagarism. Now to correct a few folks on this..... Jeet Kune Do is NOT a Mixed Martial Art!!:woo:
Yes they do - all the time. Clearly you have very limited MMA experience So who founded wrestling and boxing then? Yup *ahem* "Vale Tudo" They most certainly do not Many would be wrong Where do you have this ridiculous notion they don't credit it? They mention it all the damn time!! "He has good boxing". "he is world class wrestler" , :his jits is sick", "he is a K1 level striker..." No it isn't....but yes it is...but no it isn't...etc
What are you actually angling for here, though? Post-fight interviews where the fighters list off a full lineage of each style that constitutes part of their training? That would be really unwieldy. They thanks their trainers and sparring partners in their camps frequently. That's their lineage. That's where THEY got it. In literary terms, you would cite the particular author from whom you're borrowing. You wouldn't then go on to cite everyone who contributed to their thinking. That would be comparable to a full lineage. When you cite, you go back to your immediate influence. Which MMA fighters do constantly. All the way back to the "founders of jiujitsu"? Are you sure about that? Who would that even be? Perhaps not. That's something that came organically out of the process. In the beginning of the UFC, many (albeit not all) fighters were one- or two-trick ponies. And identifying them with their style(s) made sense. In no small part because UFC was partially a vehicle to promote BJJ. But as time went by, all fighters grew to understand that they needed a hybridized approach. And over time (as usually happens), that approach took on a name. It wasn't a deliberate attempt by anyone to say "I made a new style, all on my own." It was the natural byproduct of time, experience, and a desire not to keep saying "a combination of submission grappling and stand-up striking drawn from kickboxing, Western boxing, BJJ, wrestling, etc." You talk as though there was a conspiracy at work. It's an industry. Industries make claims in support of their business. My taekwondo school claimed it would improve my grades too. Wanna see the data on that? Countless schools claim to teach self-defense. When you're trying to keep a business afloat, people tend to slip into marketing speak. That's not plagiarism. It's just business. And we'd be hard pushed to find a martial arts school that doesn't talk like that in one way or another. You keep going back to this "without credit" thing. But you also keep rattling off the styles that go into MMA. We all know the styles that go into MMA. And part of the reason we know that is that adherents of MMA have been talking about it all along. Boxing Wrestling Brazilian jiujitsu Muay thai Catch-as-catch-can Kyokushinkai (e.g., George St. Pierre) Shooto/pancrase Shotokan (e.g., Lyoto Machida) Taekwondo (e.g., Stephan Bonnar) That's off the top of my head. I'll wager that, if people were inclined, they could rattle off dozens of MMA fighters and their training backgrounds. And how would they be able to do so if MMA were pretending they didn't have one? That one sentence is hardly going to lay that chestnut to rest. There's lots of room to argue that one way or another. Enough, in fact, for it to be a separate thread. Indeed, I'm sure it has been several times over here at MAP.
This thread is ridiculous. If we set aside the absurd plagiarism arguments that have been made, why the hell would anyone care?
