is kung fu for self defence or killing?

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Hatori Banzo, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. Hatori Banzo

    Hatori Banzo New Member

    Most schools are marketed as places for self defence but some teachers think it is reserved more for individuals who have a greater ability to kill people more easily such as soldiers police, etc. What category does kung fu come under? Is it self defence or killing? Wu Shu means martial arts but kung fu is generally translated as "hard work". Wu shu may mean battlefield strategies but kung fu might mean self defence, which means you can practice even if you can't cut someone into two pieces.

    There seems to be more of a military traditon in Japan, but in China the main schools are associated with Shaolin, Wudang shan and Emei Shan. All are religious centres.

    My instructor, who is asian and quite good at martial arts, frowns on people who want learn martial arts, but can't kill people easily, and rejects them as cowards. Is this the general rule? He believes that if you cant kill another individual with a dear antler blade to the throat in mortal combat, you are weak, and a wasting your time. Is this common? They also believe that the warrior philosophy is to scald weak individuals when you meet them in day to day life, much like in feudal times. Haha this guy isn't bolo from bloodsport, but is a respected teacher in Australia.
  2. iaw-maidstone

    iaw-maidstone Valued Member

    In my mind a martial art is just that, preparation for war, nowadays more likely war on an individual rather than a full scale battle.
    Self defence and killing may well need to be the same in certain situations where your life is truly at risk. Whatever you train should be effective if it is not then why bother.
  3. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    OK, who are you?? Master betty? Is that you...

    Come on... pull the other one ;' D


  4. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    What's up LFD?

    Never had to kill someone for a black sash?

    Pfft what sort of martial artist are you?
  5. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    I know...

    It's thefiercehadou!!!

    Dean, I kills them by the thousands...

    Brain cells, every times I has too many beerz...

    :' P

  6. Alex MH

    Alex MH Valued Member

    I have found a very good explanation of the difference between "Martial Arts" and "Self Defence" in Forrest Morgan's book "Living the Martial Way". You can sneak at this explanation on Amazon's website.

    [ame=""] Living the Martial Way : A Manual for the Way a Modern Warrior Should Think (9780942637762): Forrest E. Morgan: Books[/ame]

    My understanding is that Martial Arts originated as arts to kill people and in one way or another they have been around since the dawn of times. In modern societies, the Asian version of Martial Arts has been picked up by peaceful people who want to pick up the benefits of self defense, staying fit, cultivating respect and discipline. Like Forrest Morgan, I consider myself to this second camp and I suspect that the majority of martial arts practitioners this day also belong there.
  7. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    that's highly unusual, generally (in my experience with martial arts anyway) killing is only braught up to tell someone to be cautious as killing is bad.

    "at the end of this technique you could knee to the top of the head, but you need to be careful as doing that too hard could kill someone or cause permenant brain damage"

    the vast majority of martial artists dont kill with their art (see above coment about killing being bad) so i would call training without being willing or able to kill isnt a waste of time. i'm a little disturbed at how casually your instructor seems to aproach kiilling.
  8. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    I thought wu-shu was rhythmic gymnastics in pajamas with dangerous looking props.

    It's all good though, tone it down a little and you still have good zombie fight skills and that's all that really counts.

    It's good cardio as well, need to stay ahead of the zekes. Although to be honest even your average couch potato should be able to while walking down the street and eating a ham sandwich.
  9. Hatori Banzo

    Hatori Banzo New Member

    I've seen martial artists in their 60s who are still ripped and fit, so its worth doing it for the longevity side of it.
  10. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    how many people has your instructor killed?
  11. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    I've also seen runners, weightlifters and swimmers in their 60s who are still ripped and fit. I'll be 60 soon and I'm still fit and strong, can't say I'm ripped though.

    The best reason to do martial arts is because you enjoy it.
  12. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster

    How does the instructor know if you/he himself can kill people easily? Does he keep prisoners to fight till death to test students?
  13. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

  14. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster

    So now koryu and ninjutsu people want to slice off heads too? Not only kung fu masters?
  15. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Which art will be next?

  16. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    my aikido instructor told me that morihei ueshiba was a japanese assassin stationed in china. and that aikido was actually an assassin art. i believed him--he exuded scary.
  17. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    "Is this common?"

    People talking about how hard core their teachers are so that, by association, they'll sound more hard core themselves?

    Yes. Yes, that's common.
  18. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster

    I want to see judokas cutting heads too! And the head must fly in air while the poor victim is being thrown!
  19. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    What art(s) does he teach?

    Has he ever injured a student badly?
  20. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    For fitness? For fun? For friendship?

    Now granted, Self Protection is MY reason for training, but I don't expect that to be everyone else's by a long shot. I also train in other aspects just for fun too, so even someone who trains for self protection will not have that as their only reason

    You also then open up the fact that non single style can cover all aspects. How much HAIV do you cover at your kwoon? What in the legal training of your instructor? What are his qualifications in descalation tactics? Do you know what color code you walk around in? Do you cover environmental? If you answer yes to any of these, in what proportion?

    Too many people and stylists pay lip service to self protection and when you look at what they offer they touch about 5-10% of it

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