Is KSW turning into a sissy art?

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by MACA, Sep 23, 2011.

  1. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Of what?
  2. JTMS

    JTMS Valued Member

    I must say that I agree with your sentiments. I see some people performing "high level" hyung on youtube, while they would be much better served to spend much more time with Kicho Hyung or Cho Gup Hyung. Trading fundamentals for the "esoteric" is NOT a good idea. The ability to execute one technique or hyung with excellence is far superior to a thousand mediocrities!!:woo:
  3. Hyeongsa

    Hyeongsa The Duelist

    Believe me Moosulmaster my students pound the fundamentals over and over and over. Each belt has a few kicks/combinations that they are to learn and drill and demonstrate during classes. If I taught everything right away then they would suck at a hundred things instead of being good at two or three out of five, right? I even break it down to the point where there are two stripes per belt. Example: Ki Cho Hyung 1-2, one stripe. Ki Cho Hyung 3-4, second stripe. Ki Cho Hyung 5-6, belt. That way they have less to worry about and more time to practice the ever important fundamentals.

    However the few "esoterics" we cover are taught throughout the syllabus but not stressed as to divert attention from the main goal of self defense; iron palm training, candle punching, high diving, etc were all the norm when I was growing up. I am merely teaching how I was taught. I believe that for one to be able to hit with a rock solid punch/palm/knife hand one must condition the tool that he/she is using. So....out come the Chul Sah Jahng Pads, knuckle pushup drills, or the other drills that are used to condition my students. If you look up old pictures of Kuk Sool Won students in Korea, it is quite normal to see white belts beating their hands on stones to condition them for training. Why I wonder is it so different when someone today has their students train that way?

    But one thing I stress more than anything else is physical fitness which in my opinion is not used enough in regular Kuk Sool classes (not saying nobody works it but it is rare). It seems pushing ones students is not part of the curriculum these days. There are too many schools that teach "stretch, kick, punch, forms, techniques" and that's about it. I on more than one occasion have gone to other styles schools and actually help run their tests (I don't understand the thinking behind this but I don't complain) and am shocked to see that when I run a regular warm up/physical fitness routine many students are not able to keep up. My own schools stripe/belt testing is three hours long (I am not exagerating) and we cover all the material that the student has learned. Continously, not sit down for 10 minutes blah blah blah. Why? Because that's how I had to do things when I was younger. Nobody in my school can ever say they were handed a belt. My students have spilt tears, sweat, and blood earning even a stripe and know that they are being turned into true martial artists. I am not a black belt factory. It is my responsibility to make my students better than I ever could be so the next generation is stronger not weaker.

    To sum this rant up, I qoute someone I still admire and respect: "There are too many chop-socky schools out there these days" - Kuk Sah Nim, In Hyuk Suh
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  4. elliotmurphy

    elliotmurphy Valued Member

    I do have to say hyseonga does work his students hard, he is not exaggerating.
  5. Convergencezone

    Convergencezone Valued Member

    Now yer talkin'
  6. JTMS

    JTMS Valued Member

    I would never think otherwise! I think he is a very motivated and hard working person.
  7. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    Well he ought to know!
  8. Hyeongsa

    Hyeongsa The Duelist

    Wow, Pugil pointing fingers. That's original. I almost forgot why I didn't like coming back here. Non-Kuk Sool folks posting about Kuk Sool matters. It's why I stay away from other threads. I think those kind of people that pop in and say something random or insulting are just annoying...maybe their afraid people forget they exist and that's why they feel the need to say something?

    Sorry sir but anyone who trained with Kuk Sah Nim back in Korea (no, I'm not one of them) or even here in the USA will tell you that training with him is not easy nor is it "chop socky". He produced notible and amazing masters that are still looked to for guidance by everyone in the Kuk Sool community. People I'm sure you, myself, or people on this thread do not want to ever have to tangle with. There is a reason we look up to them and know they can destroy us with a pinky. Because they have trained in the parts of our art that are not taught to everyone. Real traditional martial arts should not be taught to everyone...only the people that stick with it long enough to show their true colors and loyalty. Self defense? Everyone should learn! Martial Arts? Hmm..we'll have to wait and see, gwwwassshopppa!


    Sounds like you'r going back to the "WON" ? ( post 68 )
  10. Hyeongsa

    Hyeongsa The Duelist

    LOL Really KUKSOOLJOHN? That is what you got out of that post? Not "Kuk Sah Nim is a really great man who trained some awsome martial artists" but "I can't wait to rejoin the WKSA!".......seriously? If respecting the founder of the art is a bad thing then somebody should tell GM Byung In Lee so he can take down the picture of Kuk Sah Nim he still has on his wall. I'm pretty sure I know what Chong Je Nim will say about that though...

    The WKSA and Kuk Sool will always be two different things in my eyes. Buisness and the art should not mix. The WKSA is a distortion of the original Kuk Sool Won. Not respecting your roots is self destructive, in my opinion.


    No problem here, just the way you jumped on Pugil for "pointing fingers" seemed out of character for what I've read in the past from you. When talking WKSA.
  12. Hyeongsa

    Hyeongsa The Duelist

    Right, I see your point. His "well he ought to know" line is aggravating. He continues to post on threads with an art he has stated time and time again he has no buisness with anymore and trashes it at every corner. Instead of posting videos of Kuk Sool we see videos of Savate or some other style. Even suggesting Kuk Sah Nim is the founder of some "chop socky" martial art is just rude, even for him. I agree with Pugil in many different facets (mainly the no BS policy when it comes to fighting/training) but going to other threads just to post negative comments seems a little beneath him. I don't go to BJJ threads and say "well, you idiots just keep rolling around on the ground, I'll just go get my handgun" or go over to a Judo thread and say "Kano was just a little school teacher who butchered the art of Jui Jitsu to make some money". Am I correct in these assesments? It doesn't matter cause I shouldnt' be saying them! There's a certain amount of respect one can learn from TMA. I wish more people would remember that.
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  13. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    A warning has already been placed in the Kuk Sool forum about non Kuk Sool artists posting there.

    Let me make it clear. As long as you stay within the TOS you can post where you like.

    Someone who does not train in this art is entitled to their opinion just as much as those who do. To say they have no business here is totally wrong.

    One if my arts is FMA, which is currently being actively promoted around the world. Go to any class and you will be welcomed. Pop over to the FMA forum and all questions will be answered. Why do I not get the same feeling about Kuk Sool?
  14. elliotmurphy

    elliotmurphy Valued Member

    Well Simon, I feel everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion but in all fairness, excluding pugil who trained at kuk sool and certainly brings and spice to the conversation many of the others in question seem to come just to insult and troll, not sincerely ask qustions which maybe could explain why we in the kuk sool forum are becoming less tolerant of it. Many seem to jump in just being insulting and while it may not actually violate the tos in any other actual society would be considered rude and antisocial behavior.
  15. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Really, simon, you've got to be joking with this statement, right? You obviously don't know very many wonnies or soolers or you wouldn't even suggest that we are unfriendly or close-minded to other's POVs. But recently there's been a plethora of non-practitioners of this MA coming on here and bashing what we do (almost on the verge of troll behaviour IMO).

    So if some of us *regulars* are fed-up & sick with it, I don't blame them one, single bit. :rolleyes:

    You know where you can take that *warning* and stick it, right? :banana: :yeleyes: :D

    Seriously, though, it would be nice if you were capable of placing yourself in someone else's shoes (it might just OPEN your eyes).
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2011
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Thing is you accused me of this too and without any justification or explanation IMO. Give an example of where this has happened, because to be honest it is the KS forum itself that seems to perceive ill-will where none is to be found.

    TKMA has a reputation - rightly or wrongly - of being insular and "kool aidy" and reactions will often confirm that bias
  17. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Totally accept that arguement. There is nothing worse than someone who stays within the TOS, but trolls and insults.
    Please do report these posts though. That way we can issue a warning or have a word with the repeat offenders.

    I do feel though that those who say non Kuk Sool members should not post here does the arts reputation no good.
  18. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Please read post 77.

    Also putting a dancing banana if front of a thinly veiled threat is fooling no one.

    There is no need for it and totally invalidates your previous points.

    Threats or thinly veiled threats are against TOS.
  19. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    I'm sorry, simon, but it's not my style to *tattle* on people who offend me with their words. In that arena, I prefer to fight my own battles (no doubt why I've been banned several times - LOL). :bow1:

    FWIW. I "accused" you of nothing. :love:
  20. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I can understand that, however the report function is there to help.

    Your art, much like wing chun and the ninjutsu forum has its share of detractors. These detractors stop you having a decent discussion with like minded members.

    The report function is also anonymous to all but the MODS.

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