Depends on the conviction I suppose - I have a very close friend who was convicted of robbery when he was 18, served 4 years and is now a loving father and hard worker. Despite my job I am a firm believer in the ability of humans to redeem themselves by their actions - it is one reason I tend to brush off excuses by apologists for criminal behaviour as I have seen many people lose their past to make a brighter future
Whilst this has now gone way off topic, could the same be true for child molesters, violent rapists and murderers, or are they simply misunderstood?
No, I'm sorry, it wasn't meant as a snide remark at all! It was a factual remark in response to the remark about Tommy Carruthers – who I personally do not know, nor care that much about either. What I meant to imply, is that whilst some see TC as being the next best thing to sliced bread, others do not. And the same can be said about lots of other people. There's also the potential for good and bad in everyone. No one is a God either – although I've seen lots of idol worship over the years that I've been involved in the martial arts that leads me to think that some other people differ with my opinion on that point too!
Apples and oranges in many respects - theft and drug offences are a means to an end offense wise, whereas crimes against the person are targeted and the commission of said crime is the end result in and of itself Typically pedophiles are incurable IMO - in the same way you cannot stop desiring women if you are a straight male, you cannot stop desiring children if you are wired that way. That said there is actually not many re-offenders in terms of percentages for many cases of the offences you highlighted. As much as it leaves a bad taste in my mouth the answer is yes, people who commit those crimes CAN rehabilitate to the extent that they function normally within society The down side is with the prolific offenders and the risk they pose - they are a small percentage but a huge risk. Serial killers are an example of an incurable group, as are serial rapists & molesters
My point was in response to Chadderz asking why someone posted something negative about TC - yours was a very thinly veiled potshot and you know it
I don't know when you grew up in Kuk Sool...but I too grew up in a very tough, hands-on, rough and tumble Kuk Sool school...with a teacher who is extremely tough! As a teacher now, I place a high level of spirituality in our training...along with good moral values and high levels of discipline and courtesy! ...but I can tell you - we are definitely NOT sissy... :woo:
So did I, thats why I'm asking!. in a previous thread our local non ksw expert on non ksw matters (judge death) was saying that from what he can find on the web (lets consider web a quick youtube search), he felt that KSW for LEO work and i'm adding in SD (he did not say anything regarding SD) was "MEH". After growing up in a very rough and tumble school and seeing what you can find on the web......... I would have to partially agree, most of the stuff I see in youtube is nearer to Cirque du Soleil than to my KSW. Even though the techniques are similar (but not the same), I see a lack of hmmmmmmmm proper mentality maybe?
It's how you learn it that matters. Some people just dont' WANT to teach that because they have different ideas behind what their teaching. Maybe they just want good exercise, or family fun, or even just the "play time" of martial arts. I once stabbed myself in the leg (badly) and my instructor was mad at me because I tried to get out of finishing my form. Now, someone across the town at the time was not teaching that kind of martial art and was preocupied with advertising his "awsome buisness". He had way more students than my instructor could possibly hope for...but less fighters. Does that make sense? There should be a balance of the two: buisness and hard core toughness. But if you compare what you do to people on youtube you'll always find someone, either yourself or them, lacking.
Seriously? Aren't there other schools out there in the world that are family friendly and still have violence and hard contact? Heck my judo coach taught 7 year olds while he wasn't coaching us. People brought their kids to class and they'd play tonka trucks in the lobby. How is that not family friendly? My coach figures out a way around lawsuits and runs a legitimate business. Why can he do that and KSW can't? Not being a turd, just asking??
MACA: That would be like asking if Krav Maga or Jui Jitsu is better in a street fight. No one can honestly say if one is better than the other. I hate grappling and I usually resort to eye gouges and "dirty moves" much like what you find in Krav Maga. But that is my personel out look. Another person might think that grappling is the best way to go. So it's locked in a stalemate over personel prefrence. You can not judge the whole art, or association for that matter, because of a few school owners. I am no fan of the WKSA or how their doing things today, especially when it comes to tournaments. If you read in He Young Kimm's Han Mu Do textbook it will talk about how they had to modify point sparring for the first international Kuk Sool tournament held in Korea: no sweeps, light contact, etc. Choon Ohk Harmon's book "Iron Butterfly" also says the same thing...things changed when Kuk Sool came to America because things are done "different" here. So, who would be to blame? Kuk Sah Nim? The individual school owners? Sung Jin Suh KJN? I put alot of the blame on the current leaders of the WKSA because they set the standard of how the art is suppose to be done. Sadly that doesn't mean a whole lot to me today. Too many people want to "be like Sung Jin" and worry about how pretty they look and how awsome their partner flips or how many medals and trophies they have. I always taught that Kuk Sool isn't about "looking pretty". Looking pretty is just a side effect! Kuk Sool is about being effective in a street fight and being able to apply what you know. I'm sorry if my answer to your question is vauge. I really want to say that Kuk Sool as taught by the WKSA has turned into artsy-fartsy crap but at the same time there are still strong and good instructors in the WKSA. So I'll just have to smile and nod with both sides this time around. But with all that being said, why not look towards the NKMAA or the other Kuk Sool associations out there today? Which ones are teaching "the real deal" in regards to Kuk Sool?
YOHAN: That has nothing to do with how the art is taught. I have children drawing and coloring pictures while I am teaching my students how to fight with knives. The "family" portion isn't so much the topic. The topic is whether or not Kuk Sool is turning into another "Take-Your-Do" martial arts.
good point hyeongsa, but still, where you live and where we live is a completely different place. in the city next to our school a lady won a lawsuit against the city of mill valley (California, USA) because her husband got caught in a landslide that was in their backyard. 6 million dollars for a situation that could have been seen as stupidity on the husbands part. listen, if you want tonka trucks in your school that's cool...not my style; however, it is the fashion. when we bow into the dojang we leave everything else behind. hard to do with kids playing power rangers in the back. playing the rule of numbers(taking whoever at whatever age to make a profit) is what the average martial arts school is about these days. who knows tho, i am not in ksw. maybe they can get away with more and hyeongsa, i don't think seong jin is all that amazing. neither does my teacher. ssang pyeong su with a back side kick in forms is an eum motion. in sam bang cho double palm when you step together at the same time, then kick. hoejin soo do is not a small circe. the list goes on and on and on
SSAHNGKALL: Even the children that AREN'T doing anything in my school remain quiet while drawing. I have a youth only class and then an adult class (as well as a family class for that bonding the parents get with their kids during practice). Cell phones are off, people do not talk loud, the children know not to go on the floor, etc. It is the instructor that can make or break any martial arts school. There are DBN's that come to me from KSW schools to try out my classes. They want to leave KSW and sign up with me. They go through one of my classes, beg for water breaks and I even had one say the words "please no more"...and we hadn't even got done with our warm up yet. Starting at Yellow Belt, my students begin practicing Iron Palm (Chul Sa Jang). My color belts learn Jool Bohng Spinning, Bohng Do Liki, Dan Bohng Hyung, Ssahng Dan Bohng Hyung (Pt.1) and two weapon forms: Ki Cho Guhm and Ki Cho Bohng. My students are taught traditional martial arts the way I was taught it. Sadly, as close to tradition as I like to stay...today's society doesn't want that. They want classes that make them feel good about themselves with as little effort as possible and since my only job is running a martial arts school there are certain concesions that I have to make as I mentioned before. But just because you cater to those that help pay the bills does not mean my classes are easier. Kuk Sool is about finding balance both within yourself and in life. If you do nothing but hard core "I don't know but I've been told" army ideology then you will lose out on the softer side of life. Seeing a little kid smile the first time he does an awsome kicking combination and hits every pad or bowing out the youth class and having two or three kids run and jump in your arms is something I wouldn't change for the world. Or bonding with your adult students while you beat the crap out of your hands on an Iron Palm pad and sharing some laughs. My students can handle themselves, of that I'm certain. But we do it as a family. As for Master Sung Jin Suh I use to be impressed by him. But as the years passed I saw him leave behind more and more of what he was taught by Master In Sun Seo and start becoming more of an artist. But that does not mean what he is doing is wrong. Just different. I know that Master Soon Tae Yang started adding on to the higher ranking weapon forms to give it that "we're doing something different than the WKSA" feel and that's fine. Alot of break off Masters do that. But I don't believe anyone on this thread, or in Kuk Sool, can say what is and is not correct in anything regarding our art. All we can do is compare and adapt. I do my Woon Hak Hyung close to the way Master Steve Seo does his. I like my Juhng Guhm Hyung to look like Master Choon Dok Lee's. Being as good as Master Byung In Lee or Master Soon Tae Yang at Ssahng Jahng Guhm Hyung is my dream. And I hope I'm as fast as Master Sung Jin Suh one day. They are all Kuk Sool Masters...there is no reason I can't learn from them all! My students do it the way I do it. When they are school owners...they can keep what I taught them or add on to it with what they like. It's really up to them.
as little effort as possible? you are teaching instructor level material at white belt, lol!!! these kids in your class are too busy to talk. i share your sentiments on that part. master yang was hitting me with them last night during a seminar(to show the differences between the 4 sets: cheong/yeok/yeop/ssang pyeong su, hoe jeon pyeong su, samagi, and finally cheol sa jang), and all i could think was, "jee. what's so advanced about these sets?". maybe it's the danger of poor application. i am thinking that repeated strikes to the areas intended in those sets would be debilitating, especially in the hands of angry teens. i mean, could've samagi'd a few people in the 'a mun hyeol' in my day(they say it can cause blindness, you know)... i just didn't know it! however, i do not think master yang has added much, as the second sword forms for straight and reverse he teaches currently have been done since the 80's by master lim su taek, and sa beom nim cheong mai. the fact of the matter is that a lot of things are being done in the KSW forms today that were absent before. i cannot comment if they make KSW a sissy art or not, but today's trends are just as you say: more, more, more, for less, less, and less. all of this is to the detriment of our art. people are adding and subtracting from the syllabus before they even get done with it!!!
