Is Judo as good as BJJ/Jiu Jitsu?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by signeduptoask, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    absolutely. Elite players are ranked on a completely different scale, you can get an elite blue that will challenge and beat black belts.
     
  2. Sevan

    Sevan Valued Member

    On reflection 'poor' was a bad choice of word. Technically flawed, would be a better way of putting it (she crosses her ankles when applying juji gatame and gave up her back quite easily in her penultimate fight). You kinda missed the point though, which was that she is a phenomenal fighter, head and shoulders above the rest, DESPITE her ground game not being as technically sound as it could be.

    It doesnt matter, she's winning fights consistently and emphatically, primarily using a Judo base. I would say in her case I believe her grappling skill is backed up by the extremely high level of athleticism that comes with being an olympic-level athlete. She'll be dominating for a long time.
     
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Pending a "lucky punch" I agree wholeheartedly :)
     
  4. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    I think it is a little bold to say she has flawed technique and that she gave up anything easily - at that level nothing is easy. Juji can be done with crossed legs correctly (there are quite a number of ways to do juji) though I agree there are times when it could be wrong, I cannot recall when she did this, could you point it out in a vid if you have a moment?

    I'd be surprised to see her being technically wrong, but anything could happen in the heat of the moment. Would love to see a detailed breakdown from you on the technique and what could be better and why.
     
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Ronda has argubaly the fastest and hardest armbars the MMA world has seen - maybe we should all be crossing our legs!
     
  6. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Hey Simon thanks for the comment. I actually really agree with you on the evolution point, and by no means is my instructor the golden calf at our gym, in fact he even admits he isn't the toughest guy on the mat most days, but then again we train with a former semi pro boxer and in addition to hand speed he's got brutal toughness and strength, ok I digress here.
    I think the best example of martialarts evolution taking place through students is perhaps like unto the art of makeing the sword, just imagine how the game changed as materials were found to replace copper and iron, and even to replace steel, many techniques for working the old materials may have been lost.
    I personally believe that one reason we are seeing more and more dodos and gyms use ground fighting and grappling is in fact due to exposure to the techniques being increased by things like UFC and stuff like that. But perhaps the most important thing the UFC brings us is the condition and shape of the athletes working the ground material, I mean those guys are in good shape, at my gym you gotta pass a fitness test consisting of push-ups, sit-ups and pull ups as well as a brutal timed kicking drill on the kick shield.
    It all looks good on t.v. It all seems to work well in the gym, but we all have to keep working on ground skills to improve there effectiveness for us as individuals.
     
  7. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Hey there and thanks for the comment. I mean yea it can be chill during practice and yea you can have a really chill match, I've seen and done both of course but... I've also seen and done some ground work that was like watching two burlap bags full of gorillas, boars and tigers go at it with the arms legs and heads sticking out. My point is watching the Olympic judo matches even the females, it's actually really really aggressive and just plain hard fast and low at that level.
    I just don't get why people think that judo jujitsu and wrestling are so so drastically different, IMO they aren't really, yes I know there are some differences but kickboxing is trained somewhat differently than Muai Thai if you see my point. Grappling is the same as striking in a lot of ways in my opinion and if foot work is at all important to you as a striker let me assure you all that as a grappler like a judo match footwork will either spell your success or your failure.
     
  8. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works Banned

    I would look very closely at Sara McMann, the Silver Medalist in Wrestling who is also undefeated in MMA that she is fighting next.
     
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    When she throws off head and arm control, she lands in kesa, and has had her back taken from it, in her last match she landed in kesa, based with her head, and kicked her legs over the otherside toland in perfect side control crossface and underhook both in deep, which iirc gave her a mount entry into the armbar.

    Judo evolution in action!
     
  10. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Yep im waiting for the video and breakdown of what she does wrong in this department with interest, but I suspect like when we asked for the source of ricksons blackbelt in BJJ Sevan will quietly ignore Matts request and carry on ranting about things no one is actually arguing about.

    On the arm bar bit I have been taught both crossed and uncrossed, funnily enough my judo coach taught it crossed last night, and when I was in a class taken by neil adams last year he praised rhondas arm bars, that’s good enough for me, he also gave a good breakdown as to why she is dominating in the way she is
     
  11. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    Indeed, though if your target is MMA it's probably not an optimal use of your time compared to wrestling or Thai boxing.

    Yes, and I appreciate its huge historical significance and respect its practitioners. Doesn't make it an essential study for MMA or NHB competition.

    Nothing. Any rational cost-benefit analysis for people who don't fight at work would suggest you're more likely to get injured training than prevent injury in a street fight.
    Crossing the feet behind the shoulder as she does is completely valid and often much tighter. If she had them crossed in front of the shoulder you might know what you're talking about.
    This is fairer to say, her level of experience, toughness and defence has let her get away with it so far, and in her last fight she played guard very effectively instead.

    She's reckless in hunting the sub, which to lots of BJJ players looks sloppy or over-eager, but given her background it makes sense and she's yet to fight any top-control GnP artist with the skills to make her regret it. I'll be interested to see if she modifies her approach a bit against McMann.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    When a good Judo throw comes off in MMA there's nothing more badass though! I'd say the ability to put on a show is almost becoming essential in the top flight. Ben Askren gets passed up by the UFC but as long as Rousey is chucking ladies about and taking arms I'd say she'll get booked to fight. :)

    Gotta agree with that. Well said. That to me is why martial arts as a hobby activity needs a dimension beyond "self defence" so as to balance up that cost-benefit analysis on the positive side.
     
  13. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    I have some good rationale for the crossed/uncrossed that will be helpful to training, but I would like to see Sevans to see what his thinking is like.

    Sevan, when you get a moment, please put up the flawed vid go into more details as to why the cross legs is incorrect. I will then share my insights onto it, from the general perspective and we can debate whether in the video shown she is doing things correctly or incorrectly (as I cannot recall the event in question it could well be incorrect) at the least many here will get a good learning experience from it.
     
  14. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    I see your Judo throw, and raise you with this excellent BJJ technique.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEirjtlVozg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEirjtlVozg[/ame]
     
  15. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    That's not a BJJ technique. That is the very gods themselves taking human form for a split second and showing us our petty human achievements are puny by comparison.
     
  16. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Let your opponent to fly over your leg. get a dominate position, and end the fight. What else do you need?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2EDzlw8xHU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2EDzlw8xHU[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  17. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    An ability to play to the crowed and entertain? Nobody will pay you to fight in these events if you cant entertain the crowed. That's what it's all about.
     

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