Is it possible to commit an act against God?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by blackbelt_judoj, Mar 22, 2004.

  1. jujitsuka07

    jujitsuka07 Body by Pizza Hut!

    By the way, I did not intend to offend anyone in any of my previous statements. I hope I did not. :eek:
     
  2. Strafio

    Strafio Trying again...

    I'm only offended in that you had nothing to say to me! :cry:

    (I was going on about Karma and not believing in an absolute moral standard! :))
     
  3. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    God can punish the individual. He can do whatever he wants to also because he is omnipotent. He may create them with full knowledge about what they will do but he does it because he loves them and wants them to have a choice.
     
  4. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    "However, my personal understanding of God is pretty pantheistic. I see God as the kind of original explosion of all things, hideous and beautiful, good and evil, the sum of all duality. This "God" would be present in every molecule of the universe, in every feeling, and every action. Suffering? Happiness? Both finite reflections of an infinite "God"."
    -that is an interesting viewpoint. If you ever get a chance you might want to listen to these two files which compare buddhism, Hinduism, and Christianity.
    http://www.marshillchurch.org/audio/buddhism_07.17.02_gunn.mp3
    http://www.marshillchurch.org/audio/hinduism_08_14_02_gunn.mp3
    I thought these were interesting at least. You will have to turn the sound up a little because it is pretty low

    ,Travis
     
  5. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    this is a religion part of the forum so you dont hafta feel bad about discussing it. You are not religious but spiritual? I hear that all the time. DO you just not to want to be labeled with crazies or southern baptists or mormons or something? Did you know that spiritual is just anything pertaining to spirits or spiritual things? It means of the spirit. Even demons are spiritual and know the word of God and believe in God but that obviously doenst make them a good example to follow. They just dont worship him. You have to be careful with whatever you do to know what you are getting into. You have to question it. I got into Reiki for awhile without questioning its roots or where it came from and I didn't even think to ask if it was of God or something else. Needless to say I had some very bad experiences and decided its better not to mess with something like that. You dont believe God knows everything? That would make him not God then, something lesser. As a Christian I believe that the holy spirit resides in me but not that I am God because that puts me on his level that I am special. I dont think this is true. I think I am nothign without God. I dont believe that he is everything I believe much of it is the work of his hands and thats why I think it is even more amazing because you look at the stars or planets or mountains and think yeah that is not even getting close to his beauty or glory. I dont really think the conscience is a punishment for things you do wrong although it can feel like that. The thing that I believe is so great about God is his grace. If you believe in him and you ask forgiveness he is a grace God. The biggest punishment obviously would be hell. But that isnt really so much because of how bad you were it is because you would not accept his free grace. Like, "hey is it ok if I save your life and you follow me and then live forever with me?" A lot of people say no I wanna do my own thing or dont believe GOd would really care enough to do something like that. I think that to God every sin is the same there are just different consequences for each. You kill a man you get jail time or if you cheat on your wife your best relationship is ruined. You have extramarital sex and perhaps you get an std. Yeah, God will definitely forgive you but there can be consequences......
     
  6. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    blackbelt_judoj
    Valued Member
    - God lets us make our own choices because he loves us and because he wants the people who love him to be with him not someone who could care less. Would you invite someone to your wedding that hated you? It just doesnt make sense. It makes you angry that God lets us have free will? Its supposed to make us want fellowship with him to know that on our own we just screw everything up and kill each other. It is up to the person whether he wants to be in that group or make a conscience effort to seek God. You are in control of what choice you make. Whether you want to believe in God and worship him or not or believe in the world. I think that is the best thing God can do for us because i wouldnt want someone as my friend who wasn't interested in me or even liked me but he took all that I had to offer and used me. If you kill someone then you dont necessarily go to hell. Chances are if you get saved you wont kill someone at that point but it is possible to repent and believe in Jesus and be forgiven. Like i said though, there are consequences for everything. If you go to hell you wont spend a week or a month there. Either you go there for eternity or not at all. It says in the Bible for one man it is right to eat vegetables and another man meat but that you are not supposed to tempt the other person. That is the sin. So if you around someone who just turned vegetarian then it is not right to eat a big juicy steak in their presence. There is also a quote in the Bible that says vegetables make you weak but thats off topic.
     
  7. Florida Warlock

    Florida Warlock Banned Banned

    I could explain how the whole Karma thing makes perfect sense but someone probably already has, and if they haven't then if I do explain it a bunch of people are going to begin on ongoing debate about religious beliefs, etc.

    This is one view on karma and reincarnation.

    Long story short. God is omnipotent. He knows everything there is to know, and is perfect in every way. By perfect, I also mean a perfect balance of light and dark.

    God knew everything, but was missing one thing... experience. In ine brillian burst of imagination, everything God had ever imagined became.

    You know how in some movies the whole point is that "nothing is worth having unless you've earned it yourself"? Well, I'm sure God felt this way. He was already perfect, but wanted to experience the path to perfection. So, he created us.

    From this perspective, God does not punish us, but we do get what we deserve through karma (and there's the whole Three Fold Law thing..). In every life, we learn various valuable lessons through our mistakes.

    To explain this more easily (don't take this too literally): It's kind of like there are two of every person. The person on Earth is sending information back to our other self. Once every bit of information is sent to this 'other self' we become 'perfect' and so we know all. This is accomplished through thousands of karmic cycles. Once we've all reached the pinnacle of our ability, there will be an Apocolypse and we'll all die, etc. etc.

    There is another part about this view of karma that is somewhat like how the humans were placed into the Matrix.

    Some believe that when you die, you'll have the option of re-incarnating or living on the 'higher plane'. Well, this higher plane is the 'real world', and choosing to reincarnate is choosing to have your body re-inserted into the system. This is a comparison, I think the Matrix movies were pretty good though I don't believe them to be true.

    Anyway, that's a view on karma a reincarnation. My beliefs are a bit more complicated, but that's the simplified version of part of the story.
     
  8. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    Why should i repent for things that my God has allowed me to do?
    -Because if you love God you desire to do the things that he has asked you to do. You dont HAFTA do anything. It is your choice. ONe of the most important things to realize that God doesnt ask you to do anything that is bad for you. He knows what is best. That is why the human race generally kills itself or just doesnt do good on their own. God gives you direction. If when you were young and you didnt have your parents to tell you not to run out in the street or accept rides from strangers then you probably wouldnt be in too good of condition by now. God does that except he wants what is best for you and the outcome of your soul! He actually wants the things that we want for ourself-finances, a spouse, etc but we need to seek him for those things.
     
  9. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    #19 01-Dec-2004, 11:00 AM
    KlaussyZ
    Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004
    Location: here
    Posts: 29

    Mostly I'd have to say "yea, what Pesilat said"

    however, since I'm playing along with this thread, How would you ever recognize God's will (or the good/right thing to do-- whichever you prefer to call it-- without something "Evil" or outside the boundary of his law)

    -If you are a Christian it explains God's will in the BIble. It explains what God asks of you. Also, if you a Christian you believe that when you are saved you receive the Holy Spirit which is part of the trinity and through prayer and direction he lets his will be known. One good way to know if something is in Gods will or not is think about what you want and see what the Bible says about that. (again the Christian belief)
     
  10. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    ps, i've tried reading the bible, but i never past page 5 before my mind goes numb...sorry, just not my bag
    __________________
    -maybe you should start from the new testament on (Matthew). You might find it is easier to read and understand
     
  11. Florida Warlock

    Florida Warlock Banned Banned

    :) My thoughts on this is that the church wanted to control the people. They believed that if the people thought they would go to hell for doing wrong, they would be good. If they believe in reincarnation, they wouldn't care as much. Of course there would be other alterations that would effect various things, but this is one of the more relavent changes.
     
  12. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    This has made me think of an off-shoot question.

    Has God ever committed an act of evil?

    Many would instantly say 'no'...but then how can it be omnipotent and all-knowing if it has never committed an act of evil (it wouldnt know what it was like therefore isnt all knowing).

    Which leads to a few logical conclusions, either:

    Good and Evil are only relevant to us and are illusions. (i like this one)

    God isnt omnipotent.

    God doesnt exist.

    God could be omnipotent but chooses not to be. (i like this one more)
    -no he hasnt because then he wouldnt be who he said he was. Since he is omnipotent he DOES know what evil is and he is everything that evil is not. God is good. That is why he is awesome. There is good and there is evil. Lucifer(satan) was an angel who wanted to be God. He got kicked out of heaven. Basically anything that goes against God's will is evil because his will is perfect and he is perfect and good. You can believe God does or doesnt exist. I believe he does. I have talked to God and been healed instantly of some things and prayed for someone who got healed of a totally broken bone within one day! That person didnt even know me and his dad were praying for him. I think it is easy to believe in God because you see his amazing work like the stars and mountains and everything. I also see spirits a lot. It makes you question. If there is a spiritual realm then there must be God. Some people can see spirits and some cant. That doesnt mean they arent there and working and manipulating things in everyday life.
     
  13. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    Could God lie? apparently thats an evil act. You cant pretend to lie, you either do or you dont. So can God do that? If it cant lie, then its not allpowerful. If its never lied, then its not all-knowing. If it has lied then its evil.
    -God doesnt sin. That is not his nature. He is omnipotent so he knows everything. He doesnt have to do it to know it even though from our human understanding we might think he does. God hasn't and does not lie. God is good. God can be omnipotent and know about evil without doing it. Jesus knew what sin was and was tempted like us but didnt sin. That is what makes him God.
     
  14. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    Another question: is killing a sin? Most people will think that it is indeed a sin to do so, but they don't realise that they won't be living at all if killing isn't involved.
    -it says in the Bible that God gave man dominion over everything. This includes animals as resources to eat and trees to build houses. SO yeah there's killing involved. It doesnt say though to go just randomly shoot animals or anything without a purpose. And it says dont kill people so that doesnt apply to people.
     
  15. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    "After these things God tested Abraham, and said to him, ‘Abraham!’ And he said, ‘Here am I.’ He said, ‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you’." (Genesis ).

    Therefore god lied to test Abraham.
    Or of course the MEN who wrote the bible got it wrong.
    __________________
    -he didnt lie. TO lie you have to say something that is not true. He did tell Abraham to kill his only son. He did this to test him. He didnt say I will have you kill your son. He said "do it" and then right before he did he told him to stop. He just wanted to test his faith. Satan tries to twist God's word like this to turn people away and have them confused but if you know the Bible you will know that it is consistent through out.
     
  16. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    yip, you changed your instructions. According to that quote though god changed his requirements.
    therefore he lied in his intent.
    or as I said the people who wrote the bible itself lied about the circumstances, after all they were men and fallible.

    besides pretty small of a god to have to test his flocks faith by asking them to kill their children.
    -God never changed his intent. GOd wanted to test Abraham's faith and devotion. He did. Thats all there is to it. If you believe in the Bible and the Christian God then you believe that the people who wrote it wrote what God meant to be in there. It also says in the end in Revelation that anyone who takes away or adds or changes his words will be punished for it. THat is not small of God to ask someone to test their faith. If you were married would you want to know your spouse was devoted to you? That is the kind of relationship God feels with his people.
     
  17. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    I think questions like these can't be answered until death.

    Even then ones answer to this question will be determined by ones beliefs.
    -maybe you should hope that you can answer them before your death. It might be important.
     
  18. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    is it possible to act against god? logically..no, since its omnipotent. But apparently it's also pretty insecure and doesnt like us trying to.

    if you believe the bible, this 'all powerful being' also likes us to prove ourselves to it now and again. yet ppl believe that?
    -wouldnt it seem like a good idea to prove yourself to the most important person(being) in your life? To prove that is who you were devoted to?
     
  19. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    Its not God's fault for making us. It is his choice. You know why has patience with us even when we make stupid comments about him and ignore him? Because he loves us. It says in the old testament that God was sad about man's choices.-"The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain." But since he loved us he had patience with us and sent his son as a sacrifice to deal with all of our sin so that we could have life through him. The wages of sin are death which means we all die because we all sin. But......if you believe in Jesus you receive everlasting life. God didnt make us so we would do good and evil. He made us for good. When adam and eve where in the garden of eden, no one had sinned up until that point. They would have lived forever and God told them not to eat out of the tree. They did and the punishment was death (or a life span). That curse was handed down to all their descendents and as you can see all humans sin. That was not God's will though. GOd doesnt want to punish us just for offending him. There are consequences for sin, that is the point. God didnt have to let us offend him. He could have wiped out the human race. Obviously he was really ****ed in the old testament and used the flood to wipe out almost everyone. He wanted people to be devoted to him but were not. That is how America is becoming and the whole world in general and that is why I think the end times are near. God doesnt just "blame" people. He holds them accountable. If you believe in two sides-God and Satan, good and evil then you have to pick one. Either you are against Satan and for God or against God and for Satan, therefore you go to either hell or heaven. If you really want to check your questions read the whole Bible and do it fairly slowly so you can understand. All these questions are answered in there and that is the only reason I can answer your questions, because i read the Bible.
     
  20. scottsummers

    scottsummers Valued Member

    Well, my point is that both God and Jesus rarely spoke literally when teaching.
    Did he tell Moses EXACTLY how the world was made?
    No, he simplified it down to a story that Moses could understand and comprehend.

    So I'm thinking that heaven and hell aren't "real" places, but being in "heaven" is a bit like being in a place "heaven" and being "in hell" could be likened to being in place "hell".
    It's been spoken in ways that people can relate to.

    Some people on here say that hell is the situation you find yourself in without God. I think that's closer to along the lines I'm thinking of.
    What say you?
    -heaven and hell ARE real places. It describes both in the Bible. It talks more about Hell than Heaven though because it makes clear that you dont want to experience it. Sure, you can say it is hell being without GOd but don't confuse that there is no hell. THat is why I believe it is so important to be aware of these things. Find out if the Bible is real. Read it. Test its theories according to other religions. Because if there is a hell you do not want to be there for eternity or even for one minute.
     

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