Is Aikido A Martial Art?

Hi Dento, re-reading my post it looks as if I was being rude to you, when I just meant to be rude to those going down the same old route of slagging Aikido off for not producing fighters.

 

I just wish Koyo/Billy was still around, I never had the privilege to know him or train with him But his understanding of TRUE BUDO was second to none here. He just always had the perfect way to word things. I am an illiterate as F... but try my best lol

 

I never trained with Koyo either but my instructor did for many years back in the Chiba days, so a lot of what Koyo said on this site was so familiar. In fact when I was looking for a club I got the Koyo seal of approval for my instructor....and as ever he wasn't wrong.

 

Aikido suffers from the same problems as anything that becomes popular - sports, art, music will all have a subtle change when "mass appeal" enters the equation

You know that there are more "boxercise" and "kickboxercise" clubs than actual fighting versions of those? And they make more money at it - and fundamentally the art is identical. Can you imagine if they were upheld as examples of the art?

Karate/TKD are the "strip mall" arts of choice and bear little reflection to the karate I trained in when i started out

Krav Maga....very much "art de jour" yet I see soccer moms in classes who couldn't fight the tide in the bath being told they are training in a "military art" and "ultimate self defense"

The Martial arts are now - and have been for years - a commercial enterprise and with that you lose a lot of the martial and gain a lot of the art. Aikido is no better or worse than most in this regard

 

nice post.

is a little historical context also in order? ueshiba saw first-hand enormous changes in japanese society. and like other japanese, also saw enormous devastation visited on his people during world war 2. maybe, the man didn't set out to develop the most lethal empty-hand fighting "art" the world has ever seen. maybe, just maybe, something else is going on.

very clearly, even jigoro kano had something else in mind for judo. even just looking at what he called his "art" and how the terminology changed from "jujutsu" to "judo" clearly implies something other than fighting is going on.

i also always laugh when i read posts on this site about people wanting to learn "self-defense". as if some criminal is going to come up to a person with their dukes up demanding their money, to which you can then use your real "taekwondo" or "combat hapkido" or d34dly "krav maga" to ward off those hooligans, because aikido could never work. no, most likely, they're going to have a weapon(s) and/or a friend(s).

 

Ueshiba 1961

 

Always remember a quote Koyo said something along the lines of great Martial artists will always be the minority. Just turning up and trying to copy what the teacher shows a few hrs a week is not enough to make you very skilful it takes a lot of extra practice and study along side general Kieko.

But yes MA training should be for everyone as being a great skilled MA is not the only thing you get out of training


3 of my Fav quotes:

The instructor can only impart one portion of the teaching. To be able to utilize technique, one must learn it through his/her own experience of diligent and ceaseless training.
Aikido Founder, Ueshiba Morihei —

In your training do not be in a hurry. Never think of yourself as an all-knowing, perfected master; you must continue to train daily with your friends and students and progress together in Aikido.
Aikido Founder, Ueshiba Morihei

The purpose of training is to tighten up the slack, toughen the body, and polish the spirit.
Aikido Founder, Ueshiba Morihei —

 

I don't know, Giovanni.

Of the people I've trained with, who don't have a job that puts them in the way of potential violence, over half have had to use their training to prevent/escape/otherwise deal with violence at some point.

Very few of those incidents involved "criminals", but what Richard Dimitri calls "a good guy having a bad day" (I quite like that phrase), or stepping-in to help others. Also, very few of those incidents involved weapons.

 

The primary focus on atemi on the move in Aikido is to unbalance. This is why it is important to strike through an unbalance point.

I go by a principle of "stun or unbalance on contact". I like that you can do either and be effective.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo5Na1x6sAc"]Chiba Sensei - YouTube[/ame]

 

Ha!

I've always felt the same way though. If I can't apply kihon waza against a stiff opponent, what chance do I have?

That's a fair comment though. I'm not sure you'll ever see many people using Aikido to a good standard though as much because of the demographic it appeals to as much as the training methodology that other people apply.

It's a fair criticism. From my experiences, a lot of people tend to stick by that dogmatic attitude of "it's not tradition, O'Sensei didn't do it so neither do we". Personally I would like to see how different Aikido could be with even 7/8oz grappling gloves on.

Lol, yeah. My poor bokken can testify to that.

 

i like that phrase too, thanks for that.

i think it's fair question you're posing. it's even happened to me and i'm a pretty peace loving guy. i don't currently train aikido, i train in bjj/judo and boxing. i've been attacked by two guys (the other two attacked my brother....at a shopping mall of all places and on christmas eve...the story of why isn't worth going over) while i was training in hapkido. frankly the encounter went pretty much how you'd expect it to go in a 2 on 1 situation, it sucked for me. but i made it out of there pretty much unscathed. and i knew nothing of how to throw a good punch then (i thought i did though lol)

there have been several questionable situations since then that i've either been aware of something potentially going down and ran away (i live in chicago, so there are potential threats all over, even in good areas) or my training (of which i include everything i've trained in) gave me the confidence to stand my ground.

so do i think for many people aikido can be useful in those types of amorphous empty-hand situations? yes, for many reasons. but when people ask my advice on training for themselves or their kids, i always tell them: judo.

cheers, man.

 

“Aikido is not a Martial Art. It is Budo.”

Taken from a long time Soto deshi living in Iwama, Aikido's birthplace. You might not agree or see Aikido as the same as Hitohira Saito

http://leeattey.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/aikido-is-not-a-martial-art-it-is-budo/

Recently during Keiko sensei talked about Aikido training. He talked about being a good uke and what points you should remember. Obviously this is not a transcirpt of what Sensei said. It is my translation of the important points. Anyway I hope you find it interesting. The parts that I have written in Italics are Sensei’s points. The rest is my reflections and thoughts about what was said.

When we practice Aikido we should not be competitive. We shouldn’t try to hold our partner as hard as we possibly can. Everyone has a limit as to how much power they can deal with. If we are capable of holding our partner beyond their limit then this is not training, it becomes a competition. Aikido is not a martial art. It is Budo. The purpose is not only to make you physically stronger but also to make you mentally stronger. Aikido’s goals are achieved though keiko. By constantly testing and pushing your limits further and further. But, in order to push that limit we have to train at the limit. Not above it.

Think of how a body builder gains muscle. On their first day in the gym they don’t pick up 30kg dumbbells and start doing bicep curls. This would be pointless. They would not be able to do one rep without swinging it up, using tons of momentum and completely wrecking their form. Aikido is the same. If we train beyond our limit we will wreck our form.

As a good uke you should try to hold our partner at the edge of their limit. Just at the point where they find it hard to move freely. If they cannot do the technique then lower your power level and find where their limit is. You are not a bad uke if you start above their limit. But you are a bad uke if you stay there when you know it is beyond them.

Sensei went on to say: Good Aikido keiko is actually much harder to practice than that of competitive martial arts. In a competition based martial art we don’t know what technique our opponent will do. We are constantly trying to guess what they will do and counter it.It is easy to be an honest uke in Judo. If the throw is good you will be throw, if the throw is bad you will not.

However in Aikido you already know where our partner will step or in which direction your partner will move or push. It is easy to counter them and regain your balance. But this is not keiko. You are basically escaping from the technique. If you continually try to escape your partner will have to continually change the technique in order to throw you. This is not keiko.

An uke should set their position at the start of a technique and try not to move from it. If their balance is broken then they should accept that and go. However do not intentionally turn your back on your partner. What we are doing is BUDO not martial arts. If you turn your back on someone in Budo you’re dead. You need to keep this in mind when you practice techniques and when you’re an uke. You need to have this feeling when you practice.

When Osensei would demonstrate techniques he would not tell people what technique he was about to do. He would just do it. This would mean they would not be able to adjust to it or spoil it.

If your parner is trying to escape from your techniques then you dont need techniques. Why would you want to throw someone who is trying to get away from you. An uke should set their feet and hands and try not to move. Just like a punching bag in a boxing gym. The bag does not try to get away from the boxer. It just hangs their, defiantly. A good uke should be the same. Once we have an unmoving uke we can study how to break their balance and control them with a set technique.

When the partner becomes reactive to what is happening then the Nage must also react to this reaction. This is a different kind of study. This is not traditional Aikido Keiko. It becomes Jiyu waza.

As I said this is not a transcript but my recollection for people who may find it useful. Please dont use any of it as a direct quote from sensei. Thank you.

 

No. It shows that he didn't expect me to actually follow through because it was a demo. He expected me to play along with his waffling and give him an easy ride. Unfortunately I had a lot of reason to be annoyed at him that day and his waffling was more than I could take.

With that said. I have nothing against people training faster attacks. Hard training is important.

 

I don't know anything about Aikido, but this sounds like exactly the kind of thing that I would expect intermediate students to begin, and advanced students to do all the time.

For beginners, I completely agree that resisting to the point of negating the technique is pointless.

However, I do expect that, in the not too distant future, to gain a working knowledge of their own abilities, they must explore on who, and in what circumstances, those techniques have a chance of being successful against.

I get the feeling I'm missing something very important about the philosophy behind Aikido, if this is not the case...

 

Right.

So, instead of talking to the man, you decide to try and mess up his "family fun day" demo by splitting his lip in front of a bunch of little kids?

Maybe you should take up a MA that involves getting to hit people on a regular basis, you might get some of that frustration out of your system in a more productive manner.

 

Nothing wrong with testing your tech, using forms of resistance, counters etc. In Iwama Uke's grab very strong and become very heavy straight away, there is no light training in Iwama. when you are trying throw someone or pin them or just take their balance it takes everything you have to do just one repetition, but never to the point where the technique is blocked and refused to allow to happen

What Sensei is talking about is general Keiko where you study the attack and technique as shown only, but the attack MUST be strong. but never to the point where you force Tori to change, they must be allowed to make the technique even though it should be very hard physical labour to make it work.

After that is the time to get extra training in with your friends and test it.

 

You are correct IMHO. I think this type of atemi should be part of everyday training, but it seems it is done "symbolically" in daily training and maybe only trained more extensively when preparing for "self defense" in Aikido.

Humor me for a moment. Whatever I can do to you, you can do to me too. If I were to punch you with my right hand, you could punch me with your right hand at the same time. In essence, we could trade blows. Let's say instead of fists we have knives. We could exchange blows and have a mutual slaying :Angel: :Angel:

Say you want to emphasize to your students to not trade blows... how would you go about it?

In Aikido, some posters correctly brought up that atemi is used to invoke a reaction from uke. This reaction is used to set up technique. This is a very general statement and not of any great value without more details.

Here is some more detail. I thrust at you with my right hand in a very committed attack. You get off the line of attack and counter me. Because I commit so much into my initial movement, you don't have to worry as much about my left hand so long as you get off the line of attack.

What if my initial attack is not as committed? What you can do is neutralize my right hand thrust and engage my left hand by compelling me to use it to defend. Basically, I don't use my left hand to strike you. This is in the training of Aikido. Neutralize the near threat (closer weapon) and engage the other threats. No trading of blows.

It is this "second reaction" from uke that feeds into Aikido technique more often than the first movement (initial attack). However, most of the training done and seen is based on the initial attack... and this is one reason why it is hard really see Aikido in action against "non-committed" attacks and combinations.

 

Can I just ask those of you who practice Aikido - how often do you use elbows when you practice atemi?

 

Not every technique will work in every situation with everybody you come across. For example a common method people use to make yonkyo work is to try and put pressure on the "yonkyo nerve" in the forearm. But this doesn't work with me. Either because I have a fairly high pain threshold due to the number of accidents I've had in life or because the nerve is likely buried particularly deep in my arm.

If however you genuinely can't get anything to work. It's just possible you're doing it wrong.