inverted row form

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by flaming, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    doing pullups requires:

    1- finding something that's overhead that you can grab.

    2- bracing your abs to keep your lower back straight to avoid reducing the leverage of the exercise.

    3- pulling yourself up slowly so that your sternum touches the bar.

    4- lowering yourself in a controlled manner to a dead hang.


    doing an inverted row requires:

    1- the exact same things, but with the feet resting on something (ideally around the same height as the hands), so that your torso is horizontal.

    when you're making a numbered list like that, it's easy to cherry pick to make one seem more complex, dangerous or bizarre, but they're the exact same thing at a different angle. making straw men simply because it's harder to find a lower handhold ([citation needed], btw) is just pedantic.

    you want to load the muscles more, do front levers instead, those are quite hard.
     
  2. Cail

    Cail Valued Member

    I sorta know that ;). What i wrote was that chin-ups (supinated grip) depend on the biceps strength more than the pull-ups (pronated grip). And it is easier to do a chin-up. And if you can't do a chin-up, you can work on your biceps's strength with other things until you can do a chin-up (which is much easier than doing a pull-up). And once you can do chins, you can use them to get more strength in your pull-up muscles untill you can do a pull-up. I taught many people doing pull-ups through doing chin-ups. Usually about 3-4 chins mean you can do a pull-up already.

    Idea of using bodyweight rows to develop grip strength made my day =D. Goodbye deadlift, goodbye farmers walk, invertedrowbar - i'm coming!!

    Plank inverted row sounds interesting, though i'd think it would require way more core strength than the back strength.
     
  3. Cail

    Cail Valued Member

    Well, i can agree about pedantic maybe, but realistic too. I can't remember seeing a spot for inverted rows in any gyms i've been too. And i can't imagine a gym not having a pull-up bar.

    Same as plank rows i assume. A core-developing exercise. A person capable of doing a front lever pull-up would not need it for developing rowing strength anyway i guess.
     
  4. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    Dont like inverted rows? dont do them.

    why do any type of row?
     
  5. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    any place with anything that you can grab onto will let you do inverted rows.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO2W3BYPPxI"]Front Lever Training - YouTube[/ame]
     
  6. Cail

    Cail Valued Member

    Yep, and do more effective things..

    To tear arms of your opponents from their bodies in grappling, especially when rolling (but stand-up clinch/grip-fighting too).. Lots of grappling movements use the row strength.
     
  7. Cail

    Cail Valued Member

    Thanks Fish, that was an awesome video. I think i'll even include that in my workouts.

    But i still fail to see the rowing power in that. Incredible core power is what he uses in the video (i do not doubt he has the rowing power, mind you, it's just that he doesn't need it in this one).
     
  8. Princess Haru

    Princess Haru Valued Member

    I do hanging grip exercises, using an inverted row position with a Smith Machine. Easy to set the bar to a reasonable height, get a bench to put my feet on. When my grip goes (after about 40 seconds) I contol drop all of about 15 inches, onto a mat I put below me, which is a lot less and slower than some of my judo throws. I can promise you I have never felt in any danger of serious injury doing this from the inverted row position.

    Inverted rows are the direct counter exercise to pushups, I'd expect to do them on a 1:1 ratio but since my pulling isn't as strong 1:2 is okay, 2:3 better. I see strong powerlifters do these, and pullups. You seem to be suggesting this is some kind of girly exercise. It isn't.

    The guys who come in and bash out 10-15 reps on the pullup bar are same who bench 90kg maybe after an MMA class. That's fine. So is those who are progressively adding bodyweight exercises and who maybe have no strength background, and those who focus on strength training, can do 5 pullups max and bench 160kg. Just because you can do something easily shouldn't give you the right to ridicule others who can't. Besides it being unhelpful, it just says Hey Look at ME!
     
  9. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    weighted inverted row on standard gym equipment:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OZaIf-hWcM"]Weighted inverted row - YouTube[/ame]

    mind = blown yet? ;)

    re: front lever, it's an isometric hold. if he were rowing up (as he does when he does a front lever pull-up to a muscle up at the end) from there you'd see what you'd likely call "rowing strength", as in an isotonic rowing motion. the musculature involved is mostly the same, and the core emphasis is simply to be able to hold the lower body up, which increases the leverage of the exercise (as well as shifting the center of gravity, of course).
     
  10. Rand86

    Rand86 likes to butt heads

    I guess this guy's doing it wrong?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boLl8rGhJvE"]55 pullups - YouTube[/ame]
     
  11. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    again inverted rows arent solely for pull up strength. its just a body weight version of a row.
    whats hard to understand?
    i personally prefer pendlay rows but throw this stuff into prehab and body weight work

    You said that the inverted row was "risky"
    the only way an accident can happen is if you let go of the bar.
    the only way you'd let go of the bar is due to weak grip.
    if you were to solely do inverted rows your grip would develop naturally to suite the exercise.
    no one said anything about replacing grip work staples like the deadlift and farmers walks. you just made an ill informed unthought-out argument and i countered.

    well it would work your back as you would be rowing your entire body weight rather than just part of it.
     
  12. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    i see that and i raise you rippetoe doing 18 chins the night before having shoulder surgery:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaEVDfDazI4"]Rip does chin-ups - YouTube[/ame]
     
  13. Cail

    Cail Valued Member

    Yes, he is doing it wrong. With a very bad form. He uses his core strength to accelerate, swirls on the bar to use momentum, explosively raises his legs to help with acceleration et cetera.

    What he does is sort of a full-body sprinting cardio on a bar. Not a rowing strength exercise.

    This guy does it right:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOOayJm7_78"]5 Weighted Pull-ups BW + 115 lb / 52.3 kg - YouTube[/ame]

    So does this one:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg1NJeqKM68"]Pull ups weighing 210 plus 45 LB plate x 15 reps - YouTube[/ame]
     
  14. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    If only KK had your training knowledge he'd do proper pull ups and make some real progress, right?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo3VJg5670U&list=UUv6NyV6UJ0FWNFIHQxwaWrw&index=1&feature=plcp"]Squat max effort day from KK - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUEVZrYeWco&feature=fvwrel"]Just one deadlift day from KK - YouTube[/ame]

    :rolleyes:
     
  15. Cail

    Cail Valued Member

    Konstantin is a powerlifter, and an amazing one too. I'm a big fan.

    But i don't see how is he relevant in this discussion o_O. Lifting is not connected to pull-ups or inverted rows in *any* way. I personally know and train with Andrey Malanichev. Ever heard of him? I don't think i ever saw him doing anything else than bench press, squat and deadlift and their variations. Maybe some abs, dumbbell curls time to time.

    Anyway, neither Malanichev nor Konstantinovs are fighters. Nor are they authorities on pull-ups. They are very specialized athletes. I don't see the point of bringing them up in this thread.
     
  16. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    This has to be troll post award of the year. :bang: :rolleyes:
     
  17. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    it was KK doing the pullups 'wrong' in the earlier video, the one you corrected.
    Also he is involved in combat sports as well as working as a bodyguard.

    the point i wasmaking is there are many tools for many jobs, just because its not something your using or like the look of doesnt mean its worthless. To look at a single movement or single clip of footage and say 'its pointless' or 'he's not doing that right' is very sort sighted, its about how these movements fit in to the bigger picture.

    often times i drop out pendlay rows in order for BW rows after deadlifting if my SE are particularly fatigued or i dont fance hoiking 90 killos around the place, or i do sets inbetween benching, its not enough stress to effect my bench but it is still extra volumoe for my traps, romboid etc that they otherwise wouldnt get.
    its a horizontal pulling movement, like any other, i dont get why you taking such issue?
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012
  18. Cail

    Cail Valued Member

    Ok lets put it this way: if you post a video showing KK doing an inverted row, i promise to eat my rashguard and post a video of it.
     
  19. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    stupid point...

    like i said earlier, it is one of many tools for many goals, those goals may not line up with KKs current goals.


    are you henstly saying the movement is worthless? chad smith, jim wendler, ripptoe, defranco, muno, contereas all adovocates of the movement.
     
  20. Cail

    Cail Valued Member

    I might be too russian to wrap my head around it...

    Honestly, maybe i'm stupid, or some other reason, but when i do something (i mean training), it must be something that i struggle to do, that i must push myself to do. If you use it for horizontal row, fine, you're free to do anything you like of course. I'm not arguing for prohibiting the inverted row and make it punishable with life in prison. I just argue to give people some perspective, that there are (in my opinion) way better ways to train the same things. Both the horizontal row and the working up to doing a pull-up.
     

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