Internal power generation

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by Simon, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    The storm caused the power down yesterday afternoon about 3pm. It just came back on this morning about 6am.

    I'm very interested in applying "body push/pull limbs" principle in "fast speed" combat environment. Can I throw 3 punches in 1 second by using the "internal" concept of "body push/pull arm"? I find it to be very difficult if not impossible. This is why when a WC guy throws "chain punches", his arm and chest are not in a perfect line but a 135 degree angle. The reason is simple. If you have to move from one extreme to another extreme (right arm and chest in a perfect straight line to left arm and chest in a perfect straight line), you won't be able to throw 3 punches in 1 second.

    I have tested the "using waist/hip movement to move my arms" in my "rhino guard" training. I can move my waist/hip to my right and that will move my arms to my left (or the other way around). The concern is, this is a committed movement that after I have moved my waist/hip, my arms will have to be moved afterward. To use this to deal with a slow punch, I will have no problem with it. But to use this to deal with a fast and non-committed jab, By using my waist/hip to move my arms will be slow, over committed, and difficult to change.

    In the following clip, I'm not using my waist/hip to guide my arms because I still want my lower body to have freedom to "change" in case needed. The "internal" concept is good. But how much combat value does it have? IMO, not too much if we consider speed along with power.

    When I teach "rhino guard" to my students, I have to decide whether they should use "waist/hip push arms", or "waist/hip chase arms". It may look "cool" to apply some "internal" method here and let "waist/hip push arms". It's just like to use hands to smash mosquito, speed is more important here and the power is not that important at this moment.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqfLkSqXsr8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqfLkSqXsr8[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  2. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Please explain to me how you will apply "internal" when a mosquito flies over your head and you try to smash it with both of your hands.
     
  3. Gunner

    Gunner Valued Member

    I understand this is how he makes sense of it but it's not as complicated as he makes it sound. I was taught about Chi by my Buddhist instructor many years ago. He taught us Chi through meditation. Many people misunderstand meditation as dreaming. It's actually very hard to do and is the basis for connecting to your Chi. You need to learn it from someone who understands the method. You can go to any Buddhist temple and they will teach you for free. Don't expect to master it quickly and you might become a Buddhist. Namaste
     
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Define "chi" - this is your first problem since there is no real universally acceptable definition

    Second is that buddhism and martial arts are not the same, so even if you get past point 1 above, point 2 is far from following on as being relevant

    Third is that there is nothing claimed as a property of internal that cannot be found in external - despite some posters claims to the contrary - its two paths up the same mountain
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  5. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    You seem to think internal is an external technique. If you have internal you will use it when you need to or want to., and it is not an external technique.

    Their is a way to move both arms above your head using internal but it it won't use your external definitions of what internal moves are., it is a balancing of yin and yang, something goes up, so something needs to go down.
     
  6. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    You need to read some books on tai-chi, their is translations of the word, but taken out of context it is not going to explain anything.

    External application and internal application give night and day results, if you were able to separated the application method you would know this.
     
  7. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    Good external exercise, but to use internal you need to be balanced in all areas, you are way off from and balance in this video in all categories. Internal application is not an external exercise.
     
  8. Lotus Flower

    Lotus Flower Moved on Supporter

    Please excuse me as I'm new here, but since the opening post I'm not getting a lot of understanding, especially from Robinhood.

    Robinhood, you post as though you have an understanding, but are explaining nothing.

    I've read the Terms of Service and they say the core purpose of the Martial Arts Planet (MAP) community is to bring people together for the purpose of the friendly exchange of information relating to the study of the Martial Arts, and I don't have access to any books on this subject, so am looking at people here to help.

    Please explain what you mean by lifting your arms above your head internally without using external definitions.
     
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I have trained with people better than you and more knowledgeable than you over many years - they agree with me

    Thing is - leaving aside any personality clashes - you cannot articulate a single cogent argument...not one. You lack qualifications or experience in the "external" systems you comment on and get tetchy when this is pointed out to you by people with extensive experience in them AND the "internal" systems

    I am not even getting into experiences in combat efficacy because frankly it would be taking a sledgehammer to a moth
     
  10. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    I guess they aren't as good as you thought they were, believe want you want, I don't need your approval from someone that is asking other people if he his beliefs are right, you sound like you need to find some other teachers, go visit the Chen guy in the practical method videos, I think he is in canada., aren't you in canada?
     
  11. Lotus Flower

    Lotus Flower Moved on Supporter

    Robinhood, what about my question?

    I'm not asking for approval, just some answers to increase my understanding, or lack of.

    If your teachers are better than others can you please explain what you mean in terms a newby can understand?
     
  12. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    This subject is more for people who have 10 to 20 years experence in doing some kind of art, you need to at least have that much experence to have some data to reference.

    We are talking about internal which is more along the lines of the mind leeds the body, like a general comanding his troops, not his troops comanding themself like a reactionary response does.
     
  13. Gunner

    Gunner Valued Member


    There is "no real universally acceptable definition" for anything. Chi is as real as will power. Hard to define but real to many people.

    Buddhism is not Martial Arts like Soccer is not American Football. Buddhism focuses on different skills and practices, but that doesn't mean you can't use those skills to enhance your Martial Arts. Many NFL Kickers were former Soccer players.

    No two people can can reach the peak of the same mountain. Because we are all products of our personal experiences, we are all climbing different mountains.
     
  14. Lotus Flower

    Lotus Flower Moved on Supporter

    So would I be excluded from your class (I assume you are an instructor) because I don't have 20 years experience?

    Surely if you have over 20 years experience you can articulate in basic terms what you mean.

    I'm just a beginner, but I can explain to my friends what I do in class.
     
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I don't think that's true.

    Willpower, or conscious volition, can be tested. We have a fair idea of where "willpower" resides, we are able to divide the peripheral nervous system into somatic and autonomic nervous systems, etc., and we can observe how brain pathology can reduce willpower.
     
  16. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    The waist can move independently of the hips and shoulders. I think you are talking about twisting power from the hips and shoulders. The power from leading with the waist is not from rotation along the horizontal plane IME. Basically you want the majority of your mass to be moving in the direction towards the target. So leading with the waist has more to do with the hip moving forward and back, up and down, not so much side to side.

    I suggest your same exercise in the video while walking forward for starters. Engage a kind of touch and go feeling (plyometric) but instead of a hard stop and go, a circle along the vertical plane.

    Hope this makes sense.
     
  17. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    I only teach people with many years experence, usally very accomplished in many arts, so yes I don't have time or energy to teach anyone without many years of experence.I don't teach for a living, only to pass on to serious people what is missing or lost in most arts.

    Their are many people teaching many arts, all bodies work on same principles, when you reach a certain level in a style and someone comes along and shows you that their is more you keep an open mind and seek out advancement.

    At a beginning level almost any style will give you some reference to compare with, don't do styles that injure your body, some styles are just ridiculous, use common sense .
     
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Oh they ARE as good - if not better - as I think and are recognized universally as such

    I didn't ask them as an aside - they just happen to coincide, yet again showing that the distinctions are arbitrary and artificial

    But there will always be people willing to buy Slap-Chops, Sham-Wows and Ab-Circle pros so it isn't as though this will eat into your pitch or market share so every cloud and all that.....
     
  19. Lotus Flower

    Lotus Flower Moved on Supporter

    So you are unable to even explain how to lift your arms up internally.

    This isn't what I expected when I joined.

    How is anyone meant to learn. Sigh.
     
  20. Gunner

    Gunner Valued Member

    A 'fair idea?" So, what you are saying is you don't really know. Is will power a physical structure? Can ones thoughts influence will power? And, can you explain why some appear to have more will power than others?

    I believe when you find your will power, you will be very close to finding your Chi.
     

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