Internal power generation

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by Simon, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I think you need to re-read the phrase.

    It's the circle with no circumference.
     
  2. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    IMO, people may over emphasize the "power generation". To make your MA to work, you will need

    - timing,
    - opportunity,
    - angle,
    - power,
    - balance.

    The power is only 1/5 of the total requirement. The power may be important in the striking art, but in the grappling art, to take your opponent down with 50 lb force, 75 lb force, or 100 lb force may not matter that much.

    In the following take down example, to be able to recognize the opportunity, be able to execute your technique with good timing, with good balance, can be equal (if not more) important than just the "power generation".

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQr-fRFRZ7Q"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQr-fRFRZ7Q[/ame]
     
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    As Simon said you have misunderstood completely - you are in the MIDDLE phase with your classification

    As a paraphrased version - when I started sparring i just threw any punches because I did not know what I was doing...I just went on instinct

    Then I learned there are jabs, crosses, uppercuts and all have pros and cons and timing slots and I had to make sure I was able to spot them and really pay attention to my opponent

    Now I don't even think I just punch on instinct

    Natural Unnaturalness or Unnatural Naturalness as Bruce used to say....
     
  4. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    I love abstract quotes, they are so open to interpretation! :D

    Here's a great quote from Lam Sai Wing:

    "If one is to wield a pen with skill, one must wield weapons with skill because weapons provide support for the pen".

    This was an interesting riddle Grandmaster Lam left in the beginning of his book on the Tiger Crane Paired Fist. The English translation of this book is not the best, but I have the original Chinese and I am trying to make sense of it.

    Could this be interpreted in the context of Nei Gong to mean that internal power is useless without external power? And in the context of Nei Gong supporting martial art in general, where is there an example of internal only artists with no external training or skill, succeeding in combat or anything else? I guess what I am getting at is that in all things, isn't it the balance and interplay between opposite extremes that matters, not so much the semantic label of "internal", or "soft", or "gentle" or "external, hard" and so on? Am I making any sense at all? :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee
     
  6. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I'll add another interpretation: "internal training should start from day one because internal takes the longest to perfect."

    A punch is just a punch after years of experience and training because the "eyes" of someone in the know can see the simple fundamentals that take the longest to perfect. These are the fundamentals that should be worked on from day one.
     
  7. slasha

    slasha Banned Banned

    " one swift knee in the happy sacks and they will drop like anyone else "
     
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Lister!!!
     
  9. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Sorry I misposted originally on a different topic, and had to edit this. So here's a joke:

    Would a Shaolin Monk drop if kicked in the groin?
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
  10. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    When adrenaline is flowing , happy sack kicks or knees don't work, but then again you would probably need some real live experiences to know this. :eek:
     
  11. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    I would say your both wrong !
     
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    You missed the point......again

    This is a TV show reference
     
  13. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    It's a quote... But you might need some red dwarf experience to know that.
     
  14. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    Usally the training for each is opposite, so doing both at same time will cancel the other out.

    It is best to do one or the other, external first seems to be the better choice.
    :hat:
     
  15. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I also believe a progression from external to internal is best for most. However, I no longer believe there is such a thing as pure external training. It could be 50/50 external/internal training or even 80/20.

    I think for reasons such as health or age, there could be a path for pure internal training. For example, as we age, we reach a point where internal training starts to make a lot more sense.

    If you think external and internal training are USUALLY opposite, I would pose the question, when are they NOT opposite.

    I don't really think they are opposite except from a static view point. People can view yin and yang as opposites, but really they are in constant flow in practice.

    There is almost no reason that external training should not also include fundamentals of internal training. It cuts down on the bad habits that need to be unlearned later and it starts work on things that take the longest to learn.
     
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Good "external" training does - there is no spoon
     
  17. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    Yes you have both in actual application, but in training you want to isolate them until you can really know the difference and then you will have more control of yin and yang in application.

    An example would be if you are trying to isolate a taste, like a food for example, you would not try to taste 2 foods at once, so doing pure yin without yang will clear up what is yin without yang, once you know and can choose between them , then you can train using both., but ussally training in traditional methods will develop the yang side with really very little yin range , once you have become accomplished in yang side of things and you stop improving then it is time to work on the yin side.
     
  18. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Robin hood I disagree.

    In hung gar the internal is contained within the external. both practices are taught from the start. Both within the same techniques with no isolation or division. There is however a difference in approach. At the beginning the external is taught explicitly in technique and application. The internal is taught implicitly through practicing forms with correct stance, movement and posture, and by using correct form in technique and application.

    The internal and external are NOT at odds with each other. The are in essence the same. But the internal aspects are subtle and easy to overthink, easy to over muscle and easy to get wrong, This is why it is best (for the Hung system at least) to allow the beginner to learn the internal through self exploration rather than didactically through instruction.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
  19. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    I would say that doing forms is more external than internal training, some people might call it internal, even tai-chi forms are external training, doing forms can be done with internal application but to develop the internal engine to do the forms does not come from doing the form, the form is more like the application of technique if you have internal and external working together.

    The most efficient way to develop internal will have very little movement and use very little muscle.
     
  20. embra

    embra Valued Member

    What a lot of tosh.
     

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