Internal power generation

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by Simon, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. Simon

    Simon Moved on. Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Here is an interesting and knowledgeable take on internal power generation by respected martial artist, Steve Rowe.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUbkEkH8CTQ"]How to Generate Internal Power? The Martial Way - YouTube[/ame]

    And here is a good follow up video that covers 8 principles that we should all understand, internal martial artist or not.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZMriILdHfc"]The 8 Principles Of Martial Arts - YouTube[/ame]
     
  2. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    All true and all very elusive to the average martial artist, the path to achieve these qualities will not be learned in a book or a video which is probably where these kind of videos are headed.

    The training to get these qualities does not exist in most martial arts, because it is boring and time consuming and does not fit into the make money agendas of most schools, to learn this you will need to find someone to pass it on to you without the need or greed to make money.

    Happy trails..
     
  3. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Along with boring and time consuming these practices are simply not needed for general martial ability-one reason they've fallen by the wayside in regard to teachings imparted to to the mass of common students.

    But as to
    Come on. Most of the old guys didn't give this stuff away. Especially the ones who were only teachers and didn't have other businesses.Of course in an earlier period this was part of the package deal-but most people were still paying one way or another.

    I don't see how the "need" to make money,esp if teaching was one's only job,directly hampers transmission. At least I don't see this in the history of individual practitioners.I don't find where those who paid load$ were any better or worse than those who never paid a dime.

    Now if you're talking about those who charge ridiculous sums for "secrets revealed" that's a matter unto itself,but still doesn't mean the transmission would be somehow flawed.
     
  4. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Classic "Steve" - take traditional concepts and lay them out simply and clearly.
    One of my top 3 martial artists, and a proper gentleman.
     
  5. Simon

    Simon Moved on. Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    He's local to you I believe.

    Have you ever trained with him.
     
  6. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    I've trained with him on a few occassions, and he often extends invitations to attend his classes and seminars as a guest. I've recently started a new job with more free time, so I hope to be able to take him up on these offers more often.

    On one of my visits, he went into a lot of detail regarding his 'softening the core' neigong work, and how it intergrates throughout the taiji system, from zhanzhuang to form, to push hands to application. What he shared in that evening has literally shone light onto the previous 5 years of my training.
     
  7. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    Well yes it is also not taught because you need to learn all the easy money making external stuff first before you are ready for the boring internal stuff., so the that is why you don't see the internal being passed along or preserved.

    Paying loads of money does not guarantee anything., but it could be a red flag. There is no shortcut., but there needs to be a path, otherwise you will just go in an endless circle to nowhere.
     
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    "easy" says you have never done it

    "boring" says ditto
     
  9. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    It is easy when compared to internal which tells me you have never done it, if you did then you would know this.

    Stop trolling. :D
     
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Actually it tells you nothing of the sort - but as you are one of the least competent posters this side of fiercehadou it does not surprise me

    The second statement I made holds far more significance than the first - but again as you have no level in anything I would not expect you to recognize that fact

    "Trolling" implies I am provoking in aiming for a reaction - I am not; I am simply stating that by your posts you reveal how little you actually know, despite your pretensions
     
  11. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    I'm not knocking internal aspects ,I just think that it would be better to study or look into physiology, kinesiology and the psychology connections to these things especially from a sporting perspective but not limited to that, looking at the most up to date knowledge there is on these things.
    The chinese were definitely on to something its just it can get a bit mambo jumbo like and it means a person can get away from the apparent masters and gurus and not get pulled in and lost in all that martial artsy geek thing, if they do their own research and actually try to apply it in fighting.

    I know ,for example, that Fedor has never done internal training but is arguably the best all round fighter we have seen...Tyson or Ray Robinson the best boxers....rickson the best grappler....namkabauan one if the best Thai boxers etc.....non have studied internal martial arts ...yet they apply internal aspects better than the internal experts....who you only see in demos and not many actually come across as capable.

    Basketball players...golfers....even these guys apply internal aspects better than some internal martial artists.

    Like I say not knocking internal aspects ...sink, spit, swallow ,float....shaking energy , tension, etc etc they can inspire and influence training and give a direction to explore.
     
  12. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    Interesting stuff but a set of theories that are actually not that new, just repackaged. I have seen the idea of muscular chains in the french Mezieres method that has been practised since the late 1940's and talks about similar but slightly different chains than those made up by Meyers. There are also musculo-tendinous meridians in acupuncture that are similar to the ''anatomy trains'' and are promoted by people like Dr Mark Seem since the 80's. Nothing really new or special but marketed really well.

    Now I have no problem with people using visualisation to help them in their training but making statements about how the body works doesn't make it so. If the ideas are helpful , great but sometimes you might find that what you believe has little to do with what is actually happening. Whether that makes any difference in how it affects your ability to train is a question that still needs to be answered.

    I can see how the ideas are useful but I am just less likely to believe the story that is used to support what the practitioner is doing considering that I have heard/seen other alternative explanations that are equally probable to what Meyers publishes. It's worth trying the stuff out but if it doesn't fit for a practitioner and another story works better then nothing is lost really.

    Thanks for letting us know about it!

    LFD
     
  13. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    Your trolling, because your posts show how little you actually know, and you never add any thing of worth or substance to any of your trolling rants, I think we have already established that you know of mostly external practice but very little experence of being proficient in internal practice, so i would say that you should try to stick with what you know. You never know, maybe you might learn something. :hammer::hammer:
     
  14. Simon

    Simon Moved on. Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    You are breaking the ToS by not reporting a problem through the correct channels.

    Improve your posting style and loose the racist overtones in other threads otherwise you'll be banned.

    Final warning.

    Now back to thread please.
     
  15. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    That's simply not true-before the popularization of CMAs in the 1920s such things were part of the basics in things like TC,PK,and HI. This is why I say what once were basics are now "secrets".

    Paying loads of money is not a red flag as to questionable authenticity.Just means it's expensive.Caveat emptor. The record shows many guys who were the real deal,imparted the real deal,and made some real living off it. Think it was Chang,Chun-feng's teacher who even charged by technique,which seems really outrageous.

    Well, as far as the boring part,I think most members here would prefer some active time spent on basketball or a pool hall as opposed to working on things such as trying to gain conscious command of certain muscle groups or painstakingly stacking (the body) or stepping for extreme precision alignment. For most it doesn't have much of an immediate payoff,unlike running, hitting a bag,etc. Lemme know how exciting that 20 minutes a day,every day for a month or two of expanding and contracting the tissue between your ribs was.;)

    See wut ah mean.Vern?
    Aspects?Internal aspects?See,I don't even know what those are from discussion to discussion. For myself I limit any meaningful discussion of "internal" to strictly physical aspects-mechanics/alignments,etc. To which I feel pretty sure in saying Robinson,Tyson,etc didn't know the things imparted in nei-gungs of things like TC etc. As I stated in previous post,they're not necessary for general martial ability.They ARE necessary in certain systems,such as TC,HI,etc,or the practitioner just won't be that good a practitioner of the particular system-even if they can kick tail on everyone w/in a 500 mile radius.

    Otherwise "internal" covers such a wide swath-intent,sensitivity,strategy,"the fighting spirit",etc, that the term becomes totally meaningless.It's meaningless anyway,except when agreed upon as to what is meant by "internal" for purposes of discussion.

    I'd like to address this-

    If you learned the type of things I mean you wouldn't get any guru geeky junk from me,or the teacher I got most of it from,or the guys he got it from. I do note that most of the guys who used to go out and really use their systems were pretty straightforward in their teaching of it.
    Research all ya want,doubtful one would discover the things I mean,the nei=gung mechanics,and how to train them,and how to put the package together.I still find it boggling that people did! And why such a package? Who knows?
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Immediate payoff is relative...I personally love the biotensegrity involved! How can you now when the high levels of the arts all flatten out to the same plateau? :)

    Speak to a bodybuilder and they speak of mind/muscle connection - it's the same but more violent with MA!!
     
  17. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    I would say that the fighters I mentioned did or do apply internal ideas, it's just that they don't name them or analyse them or pay attention to it....just do it. Or try to understand it through western science.

    It could be said that the internal ideas come from noticing these things and making a point to practice them and call them something and attempt to explain them. A person can't invent the human body to do something so the doing of the thing, subconsciously or some other way, must have come first to then conciously be aware of it to attempt to analyse and explain it.
    They must have actually had fights and noticed things that then could be expanded on.

    If fighting or fighting back is important to a person then the ability to fight or fight back comes first, then the deeper understanding can come after. The top fighters in any field don't study internal martial arts , yet show greater compitance ,for fighting, than those that do study internal martial arts and apply what they talk about better. Fedor, for example, can strike more powerfully and tactically within the context of a chaotic violent time frame than any internal martial arts master I know of, who might only be able to do it in a demo or in perfect conditions ( a non chaotic, non violent, time frame). As in its better to have no understanding of internal aspects and be able to fight, than know internal aspects and not be able to fight, if fighting or having to fight back is important. The best would be an ability to fight plus an understanding of what's going on internally...but only to get better at fighting and not getting lost in being internal.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
  18. Simon

    Simon Moved on. Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    If you have trained with anyone of worth in the internal arts you'll come to appreciate just how much you could be missing from your own art.

    The relaxation seems impossible, you can't stand correctly, you can't move correctly and a lot of it is masked by the fast movements most of us do in our chosen style.

    There are crossovers of course, but internal arts do need to be sampled before one can make a comparison.
     
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

  20. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    I have to disagree with what Bruce Lee had said, "Now that I've understood the art, a punch is just like a punch, a kick just like a kick".

    Even in the advance level,

    1. A punch is more than just a punch. A punch can be used to set up

    - another punch,
    - a "pull",
    - an "arm wrap", or
    - ...

    2. A kick is more than just a kick. A kick can be used to set up

    - another kick,
    - another punch, or
    - just to close the distance.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016

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