Interesting views on the diversity of religion.

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Mangosteen, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Listened to this video someone posted on facebook and its quite an interesting view on the diversity of religion and the idea of "Islam" and conversion of religion.
    Thought you guys might be interested.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D_qc58WCQw&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D_qc58WCQw&feature=player_embedded[/ame]
     
  2. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    it is the same ol'

    "My religion is the foremost, original, or true"......

    This is a lot like martial arts.... :hat:
     
  3. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Yeah i get what you mean.

    Actually i was interested more at the "Islam means Surrender, therefore anyone who surrends himself to god is a muslim, its doesnt matter if he's christian or whatever" message.
    It's a pretty accepting thing from a religious leader.
    I rarely hear people actually say that of their religion, especially in one that has become is recently famous for unsympathetic fanatics and radicals.

    I also wonder. If hatred between religions ends, and they all become accepting, will they try to hunt down atheists and declare war on them. We all know that the atheists have all the decent weapons like the nukes...

    funny race these humans.
     
  4. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Much of religious animosity is man-made rather than inherent in the religions themselves.

    I am utterly convinced, through years of study and conversation, that Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism are compatible in their essential cores. And once you have the essential cores, everything else falls into place of its own, naturally.

    I am saddened that only a token tiny percentage of people are willing to even try to find the similarities. :confused: :cry:
     
  5. JKMann

    JKMann Valued Member

    This is an interesting thing about Islam. Judaism groups the world into Jews and Gentiles. Christians have believers and unbelievers. For traditional Christianity, only the believers inherit heaven. But in Islam you have Muslims, People of the Book (Jews and Christians), and infidels. And so Islam teaches that righteous Jews and Christians (not the slackers, mind you) can attain to Paradise. They will have a lower status there, but it's a heck of a lot better than suffering eternally in hell.

    The gentleman in the video clearly believes his religion is the only right one. That's fine by me. He's not mean, arrogant, or violent (from what I can tell). I'm not a Muslim, so I disagree with him on some things. That is to say, I think his religious beliefs are...wait for it... wrong. And I try not to be mean, arrogant, or violent about it.

    We all disagree on certain things. The trick isn't to pretend that we don't disagree or think each other are wrong, but to learn how to be respectful and have productive dialogue.
     
  6. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    What do you think was wrong?
     
  7. JKMann

    JKMann Valued Member

    AikiMac, Are you asking where I disagree with Muslims? If so, I do not believe that Allah communicated divine truth to Muhammad through the Archangel Gabriel 1400 years ago. If I did believe that, I would be a Muslim. It's a respectful disagreement; I don't mock, ridicule, or look down my nose at Muslims for their faith. We believe different things.
     
  8. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Well, you said that you disagreed with the speaker in that clip, but okay, no angels talking with Muhammad. Jolly good. Is your root disagreement that you don't think there's a God at all, or from that clip are you only disagreeing with the Muhammad story?
     
  9. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    is any of this a quote from a religious text or just pure speculation?
     
  10. JKMann

    JKMann Valued Member

    Zaad: Neither. It's an account of Islamic beliefs in my own words.

    AikiMac: I had just wanted to make a point about people's differences when it comes to religious beliefs. I don't want to come off as evasive, but I would prefer not to get into a discussion here on the existence of God. Since this thread is about views on the diversity of religion, I'll just limit my comments to that. I hope you don't mind.
     
  11. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    It's fine equating Islam with other Abrahamic religions if that's what floats his boat, submitting to God and all that. But not all religions are "submissive" to divine beings. Mine sure isn't, but as an infidel I don't count anyway.

    But really, if you want to be reductionist about religion it all comes down to who has the best imaginary friend, and whether the books written about them are any good.

    Best regards,

    -Mark
     
  12. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    sorry but what is your knowledge of Islamic beliefs based on?
    have you read their religious texts or again is this a account of islamic beliefs from members of the Islamic populations you've met or seen on television?

    LOL faith is against my religion. so is the idea of submissiveness.
    guess that makes me an infidel too.

    hm... i understand your point that the video seems to be directed at monotheistic and abrahamic religions.
     
  13. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    The "people of the book" distinction IS in the Qur'an. On paper, the Qur'an is more tolerant of members of other Abrahamic religions than it is polytheists and pagans (who were common in Muhammad's time). How that translates into practice has varied over the centuries.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book#In_the_Qur.27an
     
  14. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_other_religions#Non-Muslims_under_Islam

    Seems similar to the stuff the guy said in the video. and under this context it makes the speaker actually seem unaccepting of other religions. However the reference provided for this is less than satisfactory (not the religious text), it would be nice to know what it says in the religious text.
     
  15. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    You didn't follow my link, did you? ;)

     
  16. JKMann

    JKMann Valued Member

    Zaad, I'm fine with you asking me for my sources. (Yes, I have read the entire Koran and an academic book or two on Islam.) But I suspect you have a specific issue with something I wrote. My comments are pretty much common knowledge. Is there something you're getting at?

    Mitlov did a nice job of providing some material on the subject, so I don't think I need to add anything more on that. Let me know if there's something else.
     
  17. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    My problem with using the "people of the Book" passages as a proxy for "be pluralistic and tolerant of others" is that it really doesn't say that...at least when we remember that not all non-Muslims are Jews or Christians. The "people of the Book" passages imply a third category: those who we have nothing in common with and are absolutely, positively in trouble with God. In modern pluralistic society, this includes Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, Wiccans, etc. To my knowledge, there is nothing in the Qur'an about respecting these groups. While I'm neither a Muslim nor a Christian, I find the New Testament's "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" story a much better textual basis for promoting tolerance and respect for others.
     
  18. JKMann

    JKMann Valued Member

    A good point! Muslims have certainly not been paragons of tolerance and respect throughout the centuries. At times they have been more tolerant than their contemporaries, specifically some Christian communities in the middle ages, but - you're right - their attitudes and actions toward polytheists and atheistic traditions have often been downright deplorable.

    The one point I often find missing in these conversations, however, is that one can think that another group is completely wrong in their beliefs and still treat them respectfully. Most traditions have something akin to the Silver Rule (e.g. law of reciprocity, Wiccan Rede) in which we can find a foundation for mutual tolerance, if not respect. We don't have to pretend we're all relativists.
     
  19. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    I've read the Bible and the Koran many times, and I've ready many books about Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. He's right, Zaad.

    But as Mitlov said, the "people of the Book" thing is not at all the same as "be accepting of everyone's religion." Religious acceptance is granted to only a few groups (three, to be exact, if I remember right).
     
  20. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    I believe there is specific text in the Koran about exterminating/enslaving these groups, anyone who isn't 'of the book'.
     

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