Interesting Quote on KSW

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by TXKukSoolBB, Jul 29, 2005.

  1. TXKukSoolBB

    TXKukSoolBB Valued Member

    In doing some research, I came across this quote and thought I would share it with the other KSW folks.

    "If you could combine the skills of aikido throwing principles with jiu-jitsu locking and joint breaking techniques, add the skills of kobudo weaponry plus the devastating kicks of taekwondo, mix them with the punches of karate, then inject the intrinsic energy of ki and liberally sprinkle with the techniques and knowledge of alternative medicine/acupuncture, spend about two lifetimes co-relating them into a workable system of self defense and a pattern for living, you would have perhaps something that resembles the remarkable Korean art of Kuk Sool Won."

    -Unknown author quoted in an article by Jane Hollander
  2. Hapkidoin P

    Hapkidoin P Valued Member

    Not a KSWer..but is it just me that winces when I hear one Art being defined as the "best" of other Arts?

    A lot of that going around,I guess.
  3. Legless_Marine

    Legless_Marine Banned Banned

    Wouldn't that same summary apply to Hapkido?

  4. Wolf

    Wolf Totalitarian Dictator

    I love seeing quotes that put Kuk Sool in a good light like that. Though, I'd have to say yes, it probably could be applied to Hapkido too. I really would like to study with a Hapkido BB sometime so I can get an idea of what really is different between our curriculums.
  5. clemsontkd

    clemsontkd New Member

    id like to combine the throwing in boxing, with the punches in tae kwon do, the striking of jujitsu, the weapon skills learned in hapkido, and the crane stance from kung fu modified to use a sword and create an ultimate martial art.
  6. baubin2

    baubin2 New Member

    Well, it's true and it's not true...

    Yeah kuk sool's got a lot of stuff. Grappling, weapons, kicks/strikes, jointlocks, acrobatics, forms, sparring, meditation, and probably stuff I've forgotten to list or I'm not even really aware of yet because I just haven't had time to absorb it all. But we definitely place more emphasis on some things than others. We almost never meditate or do Ki stuff in class, for one thing. Nor sparring/grappling. We only learn a few weapons (though that's more because our instructors are all first degrees over here than anything) and kicks/strikes are mostly used in workouts, we very rarely go over the mechanics or practice in detail.

    So yes, kuk sool's got a lot of stuff in it. But there's a lot of stuff in kuk sool that you don't need to know or do to advance through the ranks. And a lot of what you cover is probably up to the individual instructor (though that's just educated guesswork there, please shoot me down if I'm wrong). So if you want to learn everything kuk sool has to offer, you're going to have to put in the extra time and effort in order to do it.

    BTW, I don't think the quote is so much saying kuk sool is the best, as it is saying that kuk sool is very well rounded and encompasses many different aspects of martial arts. All legitimate, well-taught martial arts are great. It just all depends on what you're looking for, what's in your area, and what you think of the instructor, the students, and the dojang.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2005
  7. Wolf

    Wolf Totalitarian Dictator

    Be careful with comments like this. Some schools, do place a lot of emphasis on meditation and ki actually. I think I see what you mean with the weapons comment, and there are a lot of weapons to be learned in Kuk Sool. Here's a list of all I could find:
    Juhl Bong (nunchaku)
    Sam Juhl Bong (3 Sectional Staff)
    Jung Bong (staff)
    Dahn Bong (short stick)
    Too Guhm (throwing knife)
    Jung Guhm (sword, single and double)
    Dahn Ssang Guhm (double short sword)
    Dahn Do (knife)
    Wol Do (halberd, moon knife)
    Do Kki (battle axe)
    Po Bak(Rope)
    Ji Pang I (Cane)
    Bu Chae (Fan)
    Chang (Spear)
    Gung Sool (Archery)

    As for grappling and sparring, those definitly aren't big parts of KSW. Though, grappling is being added more and more. That's one of the things I like about kuk sool; the art is allowed to evolve to encompass new things.

    As you said though, most of this is dependent on your instructor. We, for
    instance, went into the mechanics of kicks/strikes very deeply with my instructor. So, in short, I think the quote is very correct as it refers to kuk sool on the whole, but many schools probably don't focus on every aspect of the art equally. I may have completely rehashed what you meant, but I wasn't quite clear. Sorry if that's the case.
  8. baubin2

    baubin2 New Member

    Dude, we get to learn battle axe? When, when!?!?!
  9. TXKukSoolBB

    TXKukSoolBB Valued Member

    That is what I took it to mean. Would I stand up and say that Kuk Sool is the best martial art/system out way. That would show a huge ignorance on my part. Only a person who has spent a significant amount of time studing ALL the arts, could make that opinion. And even would just be their opinion. I also wince when I here someone say that something (whatever it may be) is the be all end all. Even KSWers need to remember that it would take the better part of a full life to experience all of what Kuk Sool has to offer. That is why we call your 1st dan your second white belt (or in college terms...a Bachelors degree). I am in my 7th year of study. I have yet to get to some of the most exciting stuff since it comes in at later belts (3,4,5+) What I do know is that the things I'm taught now would be very ineffective without the broad foundation that was set during the training for my 1st dan. I recently had the chance to attend a blackbelt training with KJN Suh (6th dan) with 10 other students for a few hours. All I can say is wow! I thought to myself...why did they not tell me this earlier? And then I answered my own question. Without all of the training that I had put in over these last 7 years...I would not have appreciated it.
  10. ember

    ember Valued Member


    I've never heard that term used before. When I was studying Shotokan Karate, I heard that the (1st degree) black belt just meant "master of the basics", and that one may be told when receiving it that "Now your training begins." So I guess it's the same concept...

    I have to say, I feel like I appreciated this seminar much more than the first two. I haven't been real sure what to make of Kuk Sa Nim, but given that people I respect, respect him, I've given him the benefit of the doubt. This time, I think I'm starting to glimpse what they see in him.
  11. ember

    ember Valued Member

    You do learn Ki Cho Cha Gi, right? We do that as part of our warmups every class, and often as part of the cool down as well.

    I didn't learn the ki breathing meditation postures until my first seminar. For about a month or so, earlier this year, we ended nearly every class with a few minutes of the first three (lying down) positions, and I've seen it happen a time or two since then.

    We do sparring for part of one class a week, most weeks.

    Ki Cho Cha Gi is required at every testing.

    I don't think it was required to know them, but we did do the ki breathing meditations in my last black belt test. (Directions were provided for this part, as necessary.)

    Yes and no. At our school the instructors and assistants have some latitude in what they teach. I've sometimes been given free reign to do a "private lesson," when the instructor to student ratio is low. But we are usually provided a bit of direction near the beginning of class, and sometimes additional instructions between activities. Even the "lead" instructor is sometimes / often acting according to guidance provided by Kwan Jang Nim.

    There is definitely truth to that. We need more practice! :) See the thread on practicing alone if you need ideas for what to do.
  12. baubin2

    baubin2 New Member

    We do the Ki stuff sometimes, just not often. I know Ki Cho Cha Gi, more or less, and the meditation postures, we just don't do it every lesson. Or every other lesson. I think this year we're going to concentrate on that sort of thing more though.

    We do complain about running out of time during practice a lot though; we tend to run over and there's been some talk of wishing we could extend practice to 2 hours from 1.5. Maybe that's got something to do with it :)
  13. TXKukSoolBB

    TXKukSoolBB Valued Member

    It has been told to me that your 1st degree is like your bachelor's degree, the 3rd degree would equate a Master's Degree and the 5th degree (Master's Level) would be considered a PhD. I heard that from a Sa Ba Nim at the 2003 Tournament in Houston. I can not find anywhere that it is written it may just be his opinion. All I know is that it will take me longer to earn my second degree blackbelt that it did for me to earn my Masters Degree from the local University. :)
  14. baubin2

    baubin2 New Member

    You've been going seven years, right? How much longer until you get your second degree?
  15. TXKukSoolBB

    TXKukSoolBB Valued Member

    It will depend on when I am recommended for promotion by my school owner. I would assume 2006. Keep in mind...over those seven years I would take a month off here and there. It was either from my children being born or from injuries (I enjoy high falls too much and have had two seperated shoulders in the past 3 years.) I missed 3 BB testings due to pulling myself out of them as I did not feel prepared. If I could not do all of my random...I would not go test. That was just my own personal standard. Also, my school will not allow you to start testing for second dan until 2 years after your 1st dan promotion. The testing cycle for Kyo Sa Nim is then two years. It sounds long...but it goes by fast. There is so much to learn.
  16. AZeitung

    AZeitung The power of Grayskull

    As for grappling, aside from actual live grappling, which never seems to be required to advance through the ranks, it seems like there are ground techniques in the formal curriculum. There was a blackbelt set (or possibly black brown, I don't remember) that I saw at the beginning of the year that seemed to be groundwork.

    I think the one really big flaw with Kuk Sool is that it doesn't have any formal way of incorporating live grappling/sparring in the curriculum, like Judo does in the form of randori. And whenever live grappling or sparring is done, people never really seem to use Kuk Sool techniques. Instead I've used things that our blackbelts have learned in wrestling, or things that I suspect are taken from either Brazilian Jiujutsu or Judo. Ultimately, I think there's a lack of faith in the system, for some reason, and the assumption that certain techniques aren't effective, which I'm beginning to suspect is less true after studying other arts.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2005
  17. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member

    you're thinking of mohk jo lu ki's


    dave KSN
  18. KSWarrior


    They but this is only true if you can find a real Kuk Sool Practitioner to teach you this. I can't think of any of the new master that know half of what kuk sool offers!
  19. zac_duncan

    zac_duncan New Member

    The difference is forms and the brand name. Seriously.

    No offense to KSW, but it's hapkido in a different wrapper. I said this once beofe on here, but I finished all of the under blackbelt cirriculum in KSW and I have a BB in hapkido. KSW is hapkido, years ago, KSW was called KSW Hapkido.

    Edit - oh and a few more weapons.
  20. KSWDragon

    KSWDragon New Member

    blah blah...hear it all the time! I've done hapkido as well and there are many differences that I really can't be bothered writing!

    KSW is a study of many korean arts under one art and so there are gonna be similar techniques involved. There's only so many ways to joint lock someone. I was training with a jujitsu guy the other week and he claimed my techniques were jujitsu techniques! They're all gonna be similar in some way!

    ....and why did you feel the need to bring that to our attention again if you've already mentioned it before? :confused:

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