Interesting Approach

Anyone who's ever seen the TV programme Future Weapons will be familiar with "Mack", the ex-Navy SEAL who hosted it. Here he shows his approach for fast results based on the principles of movement, weapons and targets.

I've done vaguely similar things with girlfriends, travel companions etc., when doing just a few drills to up their percentage of being able to handle themselves by a few points in a very limited amount of time - just present a pad to them and get them to hit it, then build a mini martial art for them based on their natural reactions. However, Mack has this patter down and I think it's an interesting approach.

Here is the clean, shorter version:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8vG28dySAc"]"Mack" on Movements, Weapons and Targets in Combat - YouTube[/ame]

For a longer, and better, version, that contains bad language, search for "Navy SEAL "MACK." Civilian Navy SEAL BUDS Training" on youtube.

Obviously, and as you can see on the longer video, this is just a first step, and technical refinement can come afterwards. I do think as a way of thinking, and to shift away from the technique-centric approach (movement and weapons in Mack's concept), it has merit.

I believe, in an ideal world, students would first build some muscle memory for optimum movement and weapons, so that targets are attacked with maximum efficiency, but for a fast introduction for a mixed ability group, I think it is a good approach.

Thoughts?

 

There is a principle, "use the weapon that fits the target."

This feeds into other principles, such as "use a hard weapon on a soft target and a soft weapon on a hard target."

It also feeds into the key hole technique, which is basically, use the shape of the weapon to guide it to the target. As well as the, "strike target of opportunity" tactic.

An example of key hole technique is to build up a finger tip strike to the temple (condition for this strike). Slap the head of the opponent so that the finger tips strike about the temple. The thumb fits into the eye socket (target of opportunity) like the right key for a lock.

 

Sure, but I saw this more as a teaching method and a way of ingraining a certain perspective, rather than a technical demonstration of matching weapons to targets by prescription.

 

Got you. That makes sense. As a teaching method I wonder if it might have problems with cultural factors. It may be acceptable to do what an instructor says to do as far as a technique but to come up with the technique yourself may have inhibitions based on up bringing.

 

Yes, but I think he covers that in these demos. He begins by getting people to press their fingers into his closed eyes, which is a big taboo for most people, also getting a guy to attack his groin etc... [EDIT: can you tell he trained with Vunak? ]

I like any teaching method that brings things out of students, rather than putting things in. I prefer guiding to dictating.

 

It's the ETGS paradigm, typically that we teach to women and children and for "self protection" courses

It is a very good "baseline to have , and equally under duress, fatigue and occasional "impaired operation" it's easy to refer back to

 

In that clip, I don't like the way that he grabs on his opponent's wrist at 0.35.



IMO, the following method is better.

 

Yeah, it's not the way I go about it, but I do think it's important to get rid of tactile fixation early on. If someone grabs you, it's much more efficient to see that as an opportunity to destroy targets than have your mind racing about how to get them off you. A solid headbutt is a great escape from someone grabbing your wrist

 

Well, it was just to stop them using it, rather than an actual control.

But in my experience there isn't much difference between thumb up or down, in terms of breaking a grip. Why do you prefer thumb down?

 

1. thumb up (tiger mouth face toward your opponent):



2. thumb down (tiger mouth face toward yourself):



When you grab on your opponent's wrist, in order to break your grip, your opponent will twist his arm to against your thumb (1 finger). You have to consider which direction of his arm twisting will give you more advantage. When your opponent twists his arm, you want to make sure that your hand will be "inside" and "on top" of his twisting arm.

In picture

- 1, your opponent will twist his arm counter-clockwise (from your view), which will put your hand to be "outside" and "under" of his arm.
- 2, your opponent will twist his arm clockwise (from your view), which will put your hand to be "inside" and "on top" of his arm.

The following short clip can make this more clear. When your opponent tries to break your grip, the "thumb down" method will give you a chance to control his elbow joint "inside" and "on top" of his arm while the "thumb up" method won't.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhyXXf44RA8&feature=youtu.be"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhyXXf44RA8&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

 

I'm confused YKW with those pictures and video. First the video on mantis arm is not of a wrist grab. It is a high forearm grab with pointer finger behind the elbow and thumb pressed on the radial nerve. :hat:

Both pictures of grabs, thumb up and thumb down are pictures of common wrist grabs. Wouldn't a martial wrist grab be grabbing the hand rather than be just around the wrist?

Also, you are missing the versions of wrist grabs where the palms face each other but the thumbs are on opposite sides when opponents are facing each other. Your two pictures show palms facing the same direction (e.g., palm facing back of hand) when opponents are facing each other.

 

The video shows

- How to use both hands to grab on your opponent's wrists.
- When your opponent tries to break your grips,
- you move your hands toward his elbow joints.

The wrist grip is "temporary" grip. The elbow joint grip is what you truly want.

If your opponent is on your level, it's difficult to grab on his hand. When your opponent punches at you and you block it, if you slide your blocking arm down along his arm, you will get wrist grip because your hand will be stopped by his fist.

You may talk about double hand grips like this.



IMO, since when your opponent raises both arms to break your grips (against your thumb), your hands will be "outside" and "under" his arms. Your whole face and chest will be exposed to his hands which is not good. It will also give your opponent a chance to apply "mantis arms" on you and control your elbow joints.

 

No, I was talking about single hand wrist/hand grabs like this with palms facing each other and thumbs on opposite sides:

 

This grip may require an extra twisting which is hard to do if your opponent is on your level. If you can achieve this, you have already achieved an "arm lock".

 

To have a "safe entering - avoid being punched and kicked while you move in" is what you are interested in.

One advantage to have this left hand "thumb down" grip on your opponent's right wrist is if he tries to punch you with his left hand, you can "guide" his right arm to your right (his left) and interrupt his own left punch (His left punch will require his body to spin to his right. Your arm guide will cause his body to spin to his left). If you try to use "thumb up" grip to achieve this, you will find very difficult to have the same result.

You don't even need to have a solid grip. All you need is a quick touch, quick guide, force his body to spin to his left (just a little), so you can move in (within 1/4 second) safely without having to worry about his left punch.

 

movement rather than target

If I have understood him correctly, and you, I can see the sense in what he is showing but in my experience most people need to be shown the weapons they have and how to use them on very limited targets - nose, neck and groin to begin with - and then build on that.
For example, punching with the closed fist is culturally ingrained so people default to that. But most beginners have no idea how to hold their fist - thumb inside, bent wrist, small knuckle striking, etc.
They have little idea how to palm heel, or use their forearms, or their forehead or knees, etc.
That is even before you enter the subject of application of force, where to put your feet, etc.
And the best way IMO to teach this is by imitation and correction of one or two details at a time, and build from their to pads, light or near contact on a static then moving partner, and so on.
I think that if we start with targets rather than movement, most students will try to reach those targets very inefficiently and at some risk to themselves.

 

I think there are quite a lot of situations where I'd rather just get my arm back without going all Krav Maga. For most people, waiting for ALL-OUT-VIOLENCE to be justified is going to result in them never doing anything.

 

I find your thoughts on this really interesting, because going against fingers or thumbs makes little-to-no difference to how I would break a grip, and also makes little-to-no difference in affecting their structure for punching with the other hand.