I'm not, I'm being literal and specific because some of you don't seem to understand the origin of what's not really a joke, but a rhetorical device. It's not a joke about "how to beat your spouse", but how to catch a liar in a lie, who happens to beat their spouse. You are NOT supposed to interpret it literally. This idiom is taught in debate classes, legal schools, and ethics and logic courses specifically because it's an effective tool for recognizing fallacies made through deception. All Simon did was alter the context. What I think you are missing is the fact that, in his example or the original, the offender does not just get his coat and leave. He convicts himself with his own answer. Understand?
I'm not, I'm being literal and specific because some of you don't seem to understand the origin of what's not really a joke. It's not a joke about "how to beat your spouse", but how to catch a liar in a lie, who happens to beat their spouse. This idiom is taught in debate classes, legal schools, and ethics and logic courses specifically because it's an effective tool for recognizing fallacies made through deception. All Simon did was alter the context. What I think you are missing is the fact that, in his example or the original, the offender does not just get his coat and leave. He convicts himself with his own answer. "Superior footwork" leads him to the slammer. Understand? It does not make "light" of domestic assault at all. It has in fact been used the destroy the arguments of countless domestic abusers in courts. Think about it longer than you have.
Also, can we leave the personal snipe comments out please? Telling someone "could you be more patronizing" is a form of escalation. I could just as easily call you a snowflake woke white knight, but I don't use words like that when addressing strangers online. It's rude. If anything just stick to the topic. There's no need to harange Simon or I at all.
Grond, I'm not sure how you could have read Aaradia's posts for as long as you've been on MAP and think she doesn't know the difference between a setup and a punchline. I'm sure she knows about the beating your wife question, too. It's not Aaradia that needs to think for a minute to let it come to her.
Lol, maybe you should let her speak on her own behalf. You men and your egos, always needing to defend women who are quite capable of defending themselves. As I pointed out earlier. This whole tangent reminds me of the false story shared in feminist circles about the origin of "rule of thumb" in British common law. Emotions and bias over context. https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1998-04-17-1998107056-story.html
Agreed let's get back on topic and stop making personal comments about each others intentions. I'm curious why you're worried about women getting injured more than men. Nobody worries about male boxers' or MMA fighters' long term prognosis, it comes with the turf. So why worry about women's risks when it's a choice they make? I've seen that same argument used against allowing females to serve in combat roles. Do you believe women are inherently more frail?
Calm down, dear. Think about it for a while, then you'll see who is escalating and whose bruised ego is dictating their actions. It'll come to you.
Gotcha m'lud! The white knight is really a sexist! Lol. Women have lower bone density than men. That might make it more likely that women would suffer serious injury fighting men. Notice the word "might" there. I've known women who could deck a lot of men, but the punishment taken in sport fighting is a lot higher than an ordinary fight. The rules and expectation of entertainment dictate that. I would have safety concerns if weight were the only factor.
They tend to have lower bone density. It's not a given for any particular fighter. The same is true in boxing, even in the same weight class two fighters can have widely disparate bone density because of genetics, diet, even past injuries. So it's entirely feasible to get a male and female fighting who have similar bone structure. In fact I'm sure that could even be tested and used to match intergender fights. It's a 20 minute x-ray. That way you could easily filter out fighters with lower bone density into a lower tier, regardless of gender.
It's "literally" not. And again, why can't we let people speak for themselves??? It's just a discussion people, not red vs. blue team sport. If I offend Ms. Aaradia, I'm sure she will let.me have it herself.
You are over analysing the text to try and justify your position. You were being patronising, hence I called it. Patronising others to try an establish your authority is "rude". Back on topic: As I said originally, I can see both sides of the arguement. We all know there are risks involved in practicing martial arts, which are then multiplied as soon as you start competing in free fighting. If both parties are in possession of the facts regarding the risks involved, what other measures should be in place? Weight categories? As has already been discussed, genetically there are differences between bone density, muscle mass etc - would weight categories work? Experience level? There seems to be a consensus here that the technical ability in the fight in question was "lacking". Should fighters experience levels be matched? (I don't follow mma, so maybe this happens already?)
I'm not defending anyone, and I'm not sure why you think I am. I'm arguing a point. Agreeing with someone is not the same as defending them. I only said that if you think she didn't get your post then you haven't been paying attention to the fact that she is a smart person. You say that no-one cares about men's risk of injury, well I do. It's one reason I don't care for combat sports. Very few "professional" fighters cover their costs, let alone make a decent living. They spill their blood and accrue chronic ailments in order to line the pockets of shady promoters. It's ugly exploitation. If men statistically have more muscle mass per pound and higher bone density, then women may be statistically more likely to sustain a serious injury when fighting men. I'm not talking about all women and all men, but statical likelihoods. Fighters unions would help both with financial exploitation and safety, so I was serious about that.
Can we shake hands and make up? I think you're a nice guy and your heart is in the right place. I enjoy a lot of your posts, too. I was in exactly the same position as you a while back, calling out Aaradia for being oversensitive about a similar joke. After getting past my own bruised ego, as I've always seen myself as viewing women equal to men, I considered her point and had to agree with her. I wasn't trolling when I said that if you think about it you'd get it, even though it was a tongue-in-cheek mirror of your comment to Aaradia, because I have faith that you are a thoughtful guy capable of introspection and growth. At the end of the day, if I had a 12 year old daughter just getting into martial arts, would those kind of jokes, regardless of context, create a supportive and inviting environment for her? Or, as Dan Bian said, what about a domestic abuse survivor looking for somewhere to discuss their martial arts training? Should those people be expected to appreciate the subtleties about how it isn't really laughing about violence towards women? Or would they be more likely to engage in this community if jokes involving violence towards women just didn't happen?
I was hoping to not have to say more, but............. 1. This is a public forum. I always find it weird when anyone tells anyone else to not speak their opinion. Unless it breaks TOS, everyone has a right to speak their opinion. That is what the PUBLIC part of public forum means. 2. Part of why I didn't say more is because David Harrison, Smitfire, and Dan Bian were doing such a good job representing my viewpoint and what I was trying to get across. They made the point, so I didn't feel the need to drag it out more. But, since it seems to need to be said, I highly approve of what David said with regards to me. He did a very excellent job representing me and my opinion. He has my seal of approval in his understanding and representation of my opinion. However, I think, as he said, he was expressing his opinion, which was the same as mine, rather than coming to my defense, per se. 3. A man telling a women to understand how a sexist joke isn't sexism in a, yes, patronizing way is a classic example of "mansplaining." I am not calling out irony. I am calling out a sexist joke. It really is that simple. I think Grond is the one who needs to think about it longer. All I am asking is for people to examine the deep roots of sexism in our cultures. And be willing to examine how it can be so deeply ingrained that otherwise supportive men go off telling and laughing at, and supporting jokes about domestic violence against women. And listen to women, instead of telling them what they should think. I find it very telling how some are so completely unmilling to even try, that they double down on it. On the other hand, those like David that were willing to drop the ego and re-examine things give me some small amount of hope. Again, what Dan Bian and David said about girls and women coming onto this forum and seeing this would think. Or the example of the domestic abuse survivor. Them and Smitfire, they GET IT. They get my point! THANK YOU! I can only hope others do over time as well, but I am not holding my breath. I want MAP to be a welcoming place for female martial artists. The track record on this IMO is inconsistent. Often it is, but sadly things like this pop up on a regular basis. And to understand where I am coming from, I should say I am pretty discouraged about the state of humanity overall the last couple of years. I used to be an optimist, once upon a time. But I have come to the stark depressing realization we are FAR below where I thought we were with regards to overcoming Racism, Sexism, homophobia, etc. There, since apparently some here said it needed it to be me that responded, I now have.
Let's hope the racism, sexism and homophobia accusation isn't a side swipe at me, for if it is say it out loud. On another note what do we think of the male v female fight? I personally find it in extremely bad taste and that is where the joke comes from. Should we be disgusted by the video? Of course there are women that could wipe the floor with so many guys, but that isn't the discussion here.
She called you an "otherwise supportive man", and was talking about being disappointed with"allies", so I think we can safely say that wasn't an accusation or aimed at you. I think you're being oversensitive now. I agree with you that Aaradia was oversensitive about the"mysterious hand positions" thing in Hannibal's video, but this is very different. Being a self defence instructor and administrator of a forum that deals with self defence and advertises itself as inclusive to women, I'd have thought you would appreciate their input. I would find more diversity of regular posters on MAP refreshing, because it is a bit of a middle-aged bloke's club.
