Inside Kung fu Article

Discussion in 'Silat' started by serakmurid, Feb 24, 2006.

  1. serakmurid

    serakmurid Valued Member

    Check out the April 2006 article about Pentjak Silat Sera written by Mas Ed Martin, a VDT Academy senior. The article was written about a year ago, according to Pak Victor. It has some great photo sequences of Pak Vic doing sambuts on some of his students. Also there is a sequence where his lineage heir, Guru Horacio Rodriguez, does a sambut on a student.
    Pembantu Guru serakmurid :D
  2. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Give us a link then :)
  3. Ashton

    Ashton Valued Member

    Is this the issue that is out on the newsstands now?
  4. marcusknight

    marcusknight Valued Member


    Yes it is the current issue. I just picked it up today. Interesting article---it emphasizes the body mechanics, leverages, angles etc inherent in Serak.

    I have a Serak school fairly near where I live. I've been considering it and this article has further fueled my interest.
  5. RAMANA1

    RAMANA1 New Member

    beyond the tiga

    andrew,so nice of you to not answer me about such great artists like jerry mccleary,great guys like chris geilan,john ryan,jim ray...yes ,jim ray-why not give the jim ray story(if you know it) to as why he no longer studies at the vdt academy...first of there is no higher level mathmatics and silat understanding from the badui people..both pendekar sanders and herman suwanda have disproven this,there is no silat there...the term base,angle ,lever ,did not come from bapak sera--but from the very knowedgleble stevan plink....and the mas roen figure and training methodolgy has no historical accuracy..willem de thouars was on record of saying pak tisari madjuki was a childhood friend of victors that played marbles together as young boys....come on guys ,wake up> :bang:
  6. RAMANA1

    RAMANA1 New Member

    beyond the tiga ikf article

    do your self a favor if you want to learn sera(dutch indo way)seek out steve plink...great guy!if you want to learn traditinal javanese jurus from indonesia-look up pukulan cimande pusaka ..its the best advice i could give anyone..but the larger issue i have is with falsehood...the vdt academy member posting isnt being total we need to talk about being banned from seven generations from the vdt lineage?wheres ron miller,who was in last article of the ikf with the vdt academy..ask his opinion...why he is training bagau and training sera with steve plink..ask the heir apparent why he almost left after being bullied,oh by the way-wheres the last heir apparent-chris geilen?wheres documented heir apparent-bob vanatta...? :bang: :bang: ...research things before you spout nonsense...
  7. MasJudt

    MasJudt New Member

    Well I can't deny that Pak Vic has managed to eject everybody who gets very far with his method, and this does cause some problems. But he is *still* a phenomenal coach and teacher of martial arts. You could do a lot worse than train in his method.

    <Slanderous comments removed - Dont do it again!>
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2006
  8. marcusknight

    marcusknight Valued Member

    It is interesting to get these various viewpoints on Pak Vic, Serak etc. For a while now, I've been looking at various Silat systems to possibly train in. As far as personal training in my area, I've narrowed it down to three possibilities: Serak, Mande Muda/Minangkabua Harimau & Silat Kuntau Tekpi.

    The Mande Muda/Harimau (this is the DeBordes method) & Silat Kuntau Tekpi are taught by the same teachers. I had been strongly considering the Serak because it is closer to where I live & seemed very combat-oriented. The article further spurred my interest, but it seems like some of the key points are being disputed here.

    I have no political axe to grind with anyone--just looking for a an effective, hard-core system to train in given my occupation (I'm a catastrophe claims adjuster & I get sent to questionable areas quite often).

    I'd like to get at the truth behind thses systems as my time is limited and would like to train in something of real value. I thought the article might be of some help...but if people here that have more Sialt knowledge than I do are questioning it, then I need to look hard at my choices.
  9. serakmurid

    serakmurid Valued Member

    Mas Judt,
    Hmmm, Ustad Guru Dan Inosanto and Guru Horacio Rodriguez are in the last 2 Phases of the art and are learning Pak Sera's original system, Susunan Lima. So I guess Pak Vic does not eject "everyone who gets very far in the art". A senior of mine, Guru Tim Lucas, at the last ring of fire in 2005, was able to do all of Sekurum Empat and was commended by Pak Vic for being the first westerner he has seen do the Langka. Or people like Guru Muda Ray Graham, Guru Muda Bernie Langan? They have progressed rather far in the art. And I have many fellow Pembantu Gurus that are learning the art of Sera with no restrictions by Pak Vic, in fact, I am surprised at how liberal he has become with the amount of material he shares! Please, sir, do not make such a statement.

    RAMANA1, if you have some issues with Pak Vic, you could always: call his phone number, send him an email, send him a letter to discuss these with him. It is always wonderful to get only one side of the story, you should ask him his side of the story. It would be nice to know who you are since you know who I am. I sent you a PM, right?
    Do you know the stories behind those Pak Vic invited to train else where? I do, directly from Pak Vic and Ibu Jane,Mas Ed Martin, Mas Gilbert Scholz, Guru Tim Lucas, and others, like John Ryan.
    As for the Cimande Pusaka folks, they have had run-ins with other folks on this forum in the past. Some research is needed on your part.Simple history done by you would reveal a different story. That's the nasty thing about dealing with Pak Vic, he has this bad habit of keeping records, extremely good records, and having proof to back up what he says. I have seen some of it.

    Ask yourself this question, why does Guru Dan Inosanto, that genius, that teacher of teachers, continue to train with Pak Vic if Pak Vic is such a bad person? And Ustad Dan is close to completing the whole art of Serak! Why does he choose Pak Vic? He knows the older Serak players that you mentioned!

    Marcusknight, you are welcome to study Serak at any VDT tjabang. We believe strongly in Hormat, respect, loyalty, honesty, courtesy. Those who choose not to have these things in mind have been told to study elsewhere. It is Pak Vic's desire to propagate the art of Serak, teaching it fully to those who would simply lay aside their own agendas and egos, I know because I am one of those people. I have been treated very well by him and my seniors, they literally treat me like family (no, not like a cult!). I have been taught more than I could have expected, and you can be too. I am truly sorry you have to see this sort of thing. Our classes rarely touch on the subject of ex-students or other people's arts. Pak Vic genuinely loves the art he teaches, and would rather spend his time with us sharing this amazing art than bashing others.
    Pembantu Guru Andrew Astle
    Cortland New York
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2006
  10. marcusknight

    marcusknight Valued Member

    Here's what I think is a fair question. Most of the negative comments I see here seem to reflect on the VDT organization's internal politics or its intellectual honesty. Neither one of these concerns seems to be germane to the combat effectiveness of the system, which is the main thrust of the article in question (or at lesat that's what I get from reaing it).

    So is the effectiveness as combat system also in question here (that being what I mainly care about), or are we only discussing the politics/history/lineage as being in question? To me these are two very separate items.
  11. serakmurid

    serakmurid Valued Member

    I think no one would dispute the ferocity and fearsomeness of the art. There is however, a number of lamentable disputes, both public and private, between the de Thouars brothers. These things have no bearing on the effectiveness of the art, more on how it is taught and to who. But the art of Serak is exactly what has been said about it.
  12. MasJudt

    MasJudt New Member

    Serakmurid, you will find I bear Pak Vic no ill will, so please put down the Kool-aid. He's top-notch, and you could do a lot worse.

    I find it very interesting that attacks on Pak Vic are kept posted, whereas a truthful, if crass statement about the 'teachings' of William Sanders is deleted. Of course, this board is moderated by that breed of smelly 'kool-aid' drinkers, so it is expected.
  13. MasJudt

    MasJudt New Member

    MarcusKnight - if there is a VDT Acaemy near you - go right now and sign up. Pak Vic is very good at ensuring quality and consistency, and his program is very, very good. While many are no longer with him, no one denies the quality of his teaching - except those who could not make the bar.
  14. serakmurid

    serakmurid Valued Member

    Ok I'll put down the Kool-Aid

    Point well taken MasJudt, point well taken. I noticed that myself, and it leaves me wondering.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2006
  15. MasJudt

    MasJudt New Member

    One last note - all of the methods you listed are good arts. But if simple, direct, and practical are words that appeal to you... go check out Serak.
  16. RAMANA1

    RAMANA1 New Member

    ikf article

    marcus knight if you can train in the debordes method which has nothing to do with mande muda,do it!!guru richards style is very combative and your body will get strong..if you want the best understanding of serak,go to steve plinck..if you want politics and other nonsense-go train with pac vic..pac vic does not have the finite understanding of steve plinck,gross motor movement yes..and william sanders material is not for evreyone,but he does have alot to thing for sure marcus only a few of us have probably trained and or hosted each of these gentleman in for training iam giving you first hand info.......... :love:
  17. marcusknight

    marcusknight Valued Member

    Thanks, Serakmudrid, Ramana1, Mas Judt & all who have chimed in. I enjoy the differing points of view. My interest, first & foremost, is in training something that works for street encounters.

    Serakmudrid--I sent you a PM & e-mail.

    Mas Judt-- "simple, direct & practical"--you nailed what I am looking for.

    Ramana1--Thank you for the feedback on the DeBordes method. Yes, I'm aware he does not teach Mande Muda. I wrote "Mande Muda/Harimau DeBordes method" because the class I'm looking at is a 2 -hr class incorporating both Herman Suwanda's Mande Muda style & the DeBordes Harimau Minangkabau.

    If you've had diect experience with Richard Crabbes De Bordes, could I ask you to elaborate a little on it?
  18. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    I see this too has degenerated to 'internal' politics, which seems to happen with most threads. :rolleyes:

    I am so glad that I do not train in one of these more mainstream competitive styles that seem to be so intent on getting one over on the other. :rolleyes:

    Long live 'backyard Silat'. :D
  19. serakmurid

    serakmurid Valued Member

    Agree with you, Gajah

    Yeah I know- bummer ain't it? Sorry. All I wanted to do was have people read an interesting article about Serak in Inside Kung Fu. I wish there were no politics in Serak, just like I wish there were no politics in JKD. *sigh*
  20. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    I do hate the politics in the art. I read the article and found it interesting. However, even the article was not without politics.

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