Inner power and superhuman abilities

Discussion in 'Silat' started by haidarfarhan, May 5, 2015.

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  1. Dylan9d

    Dylan9d Valued Member

    Ofcourse you do.

    Look I'm not associated with Merpati Putih in any way, thank god, but I don't feel myself the person that needs to put his nose in their business.

    Last time I checked there was something called "the internet", let someone do their own research.
  2. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    And this thread will be part of said research.
    If everything would get deleted there wouldn't be much left to be researched aside from their own claims.
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    How about we don't let frauds rip off people for money?

    If you are good with blind people being taking advantange of then fill your boots....but don't expect passivity from others who consider it reprehensible

    Also if you are going to quote a law, try quoting one that
    (A) actually exists and
    (B) cannot be easily counterpointed
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2017
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  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I don't know.

    Businesses are going to be hostile towards it, and will put pressure on politicians to scrap/delay/hobble it, but no-one is going to want to draw attention to themselves for opposing it.

    We'll have to see what happens with it in the commons.
  5. Dylan9d

    Dylan9d Valued Member

    Don't call them that, the mod's wont like it, and others will be upset about the namecalling :D

    [Mod: original post changed; edited here to match]
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2017
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Truth is an absolute defense
  7. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Oh my, I turn my back for 5 minutes.

    In light of earlier posts regarding the moderation of the site I'd just like to point out that I've opted out of any discussion regarding the edited posts by Dylan9d.

    It's normally the way when a member of the team is questioned and it means any decision made is unbiased.

    One thing I would say is that certain areas of the martial arts should certainly be held to account and the area surrounding self defence is one of them.

    There's nothing wrong with just training because you love it even if it's not the best of schools you belong to, but f you are selling self defence, then there are standards you need to conform to.
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Surely a fee for breaking materials at the end of a women's self defence course is a sign of quality?

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  9. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    A fair point, but often people aren't sure what they should be searching for, or how to recognise the good from the bad.

    There are lots of websites with "Self Defence" is large lettering on the front page, or wording such as, "danger lurks, learn to defend yourself".

    Problem is it's headline grabbing, but what is behind it?

    Is the system tried and tested, legally underpinned, based on facts, home office/police databases, habitual acts of violence and so on, or just the instructor's beliefs?

    Does the system cover the different types of aggressor, de-escalation, post event record keeping and police statements and the like?

    These aren't questions the average person is going to ask themselves and it's more often that not omitted from 95% of websites/social media sites.

    Add to this someone claiming they can teach the blind and it's only right someone should be asking hard questions.
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  10. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    Judging the validity of 'Self Defence' is always a slippery slope. When is a system tried and tested to modern standards? When it's practiced in a competition format? Or when the teacher has had minimum 5 fights on the street and was able to use his style? When a big group of people goes to a seminar of someone like Dan Inosanto, and pay loads of money to learn a heap of techniques they already forget the day after, who are we to judge the validity of this?
    I've seen several Silat styles that have no 'de-escalation' discussed, been practiced by teachers who had to use it to kill people, who perhaps wasn't the sweetest person in the world, didn't spar with it. Could he use it to make it work? Hell yes. Could people learn to defend themselves when they were in a bad spot? Sure they can. Is it valid self defense according to modern standards? Hmmm

    And who is to judge? Some people over here who claim to go in the right direction? I've seen too many knife-sparring videos (which in my opinion is absolute bollocks), self defense against a gun etc.etc.

    We could voice our opinion on this on a forum, sure, but that's about it. I don't think we are in a position to take it any further, unless we talk about proven offenses, abuse, things like that.
    That's also the problem with science, one person's science is not another person's.
    Some think Quantum-Mechanics is real, other think it's fake. Some think there is just gravity, others also take into account anti-gravity. Things are facts until it is proven otherwise. Some people think blind people can't 'see', others prove otherwise by using 'sonar' like techniques. Where one sense fails, others might become better. You just have to widen your definition of 'seeing'
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
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  11. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

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  12. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    Relax Philosoraptor, relax... this is just a forum for exchanging ideas ;)
  13. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    But are there or do you just wish there were ?
    What are they and who enforces them. And how do they enforce them, if someone doesn't conform what happens to them ?
    Has a S/D instructor ever found themselves in court over a crappy technique ?

    It seems to me that it's just a free for all and any 'policing' is just people pointing things out on the internet.

    Example; Just the other day I was watching a clip where a guy was using an awful SD clip posted by some women and running through the issues and showing alternative actions that were more realistic. Which is great, but other than that what is there, is there some world wide governing body that enforces a standard through a regions law system?
  14. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    It's not really about QM being fake or not.. The way I see it, is that it''s implications are still quite widely open to interpretation. Take the Copenhagen interpretation vs. the Many worlds interpretation for a fundemental example of that.

    Frankly I can't stand the idea of the many worlds interpretation, it sounds totally kooky and bizzarre to me. Like how often are we supposed to branch off into another universe, who or what decides where or when a split happens.. Does it happen every time I chose to hold a fart in ?
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    It happens whenever the wave function of a particle collapses.

    It does smell like a fudge to me, and weirdly it was thought up to try and make QM less weird!

    But would you not agree that the unknown mechanisms behind the quantum world are of an entirely different class than parlour tricks that you can see any mentalist or magician doing on stage? QM is a rigorously tested theory that has spawned revolutions in technology, it has demonstrable and replicable effects that have been independently repeated and verified across the world.

    How many more times do we need to be fooled by charlatans promising to have unlocked untapped powers? Spiritualism, Uri Geller, etc. etc...
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  16. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    That's the bit I have trouble with as it relates to the world we live and take choices in. How does that relate into a criteria of the choices made by people and the many twists and turns of fate. Every insignificant choice everyone makes ever becomes another universe ? Every inconsequential event.. Seems like a huge waste of time to me. But who knows right. It has the 'advantage' that there could be an infinite amount of 'you's' and 'me's' floating around out there doing God knows what.

    I'm not keen on it either.

    Sure of course, I wasn't going there.

    As many as it takes, is the practical answer for people who find themselves duped out of money... I certainly support awareness of shady commercial practices and am shocked and morally sickened by anyone dreaming of charging those crazy sums mentioned in this thread. Genuine practices, to me, are a very different kind of thing than that kind of commercial activity. It exploits the genuine thing as well as peoples vulnerability, in my view.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
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  17. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    It's not about doubting that Silat could work or not.

    It's about the nonsense MP tries to sell.
    They even tried to prove it works and failed and essentially showed that it doesn't.
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  18. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    Because, perhaps, just perhaps it's way to easy to dismiss a lot of the Eastern old knowledge as pure charlatans trying to abuse people. Acupunture is also seen as bogus to some over here. I know black and white statements are more easy to make.

    As another example, frequently I see these programs on TV (National Geographic) where they talk about the hardest hit and purely explained by way of F=M*A. So they think the biggest impact of a hit is by working on merely these factors. I've seen and felt the effects of short distance relaxed punches hundreds, maybe thousands of times, which had a very different result than plainly maximizing the acceleration and mass and they were equally or more destructive in effect. Am I fooling myself? Don't think so, saw the same effect happening to skeptic Muay Thai practitioners who never felt those effects or heard about it. Is there a good scientific model to explain this? Hope someone can provide it.
    Or maybe even getting hit on the left side of the body and feeling (and seeing the effect) on the right side? Or getting blue spots on different places then where you get hit?
    When does it become fake/fiction/charlatan-stuff?
    When current science can't explain it? Perhaps it is like is mentioned in the link to the 'open mindedness movie', that the results are 'inconclusive'. Not proven, not fake. That is, until we can explain it.

    I do agree however that the MP people do have a responsibility to let their stuff tested time and time again and to be honest paying huge sums of money to learn this stuff is dubious to me. Leaves indeed too much room for Charlatans
  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, it's not really about new universes branching out every time you make a decision. That's a way of simplifying the idea to the point that it doesn't really resemble how the theory works at all.

    Speaking of which:

    No-one says that acupuncture does nothing. It just doesn't work the way the tradition says it does, and many of the claims are severely hyped.

    There is a distinction between having a theoretical model that has been simplified and a theoretical model that is simply made up and false. The F=MA way of looking at strikes is a gross simplification of what's going on, and in many cases it produces false predictions. Lots of popular sports "science" is like that, and don't forget that all TV documentaries are for entertainment purposes only ;)

    There are so many moving variables in striking (or moving the body in general) that it is a hugely complicated thing to describe in terms of mechanics. It would certainly be beyond my understanding, and even though you can explain some of it, to do it takes huge repetition and intuition, because it is too complex to grasp at an intellectual level. That doesn't mean it is inexplicable to science, but to my knowledge no-one has come up with a comprehensive model for striking.

    But it is still not the same thing as vibravision at all. More esoteric ways of striking can be replicated with predictable results, and more importantly cannot be faked. No-one can hit you with short, relaxed power and then say "it's just a trick, I've never hit someone in my life!".
  20. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Ok so how does it work for a simpleton ?
    Which events and decisions count and which don't, help a brother out.
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