Indonesian Astrology and Silat

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Narrue, Dec 25, 2005.

  1. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    I don’t know if its as esoteric or wooo wooo as some may think. If you look at the natural world around you, can you see if planetary/seasonal influences have effect there? Animals hibernate, mate, lay eggs, spawn, plants grow and wither back in to the soil. It’s clear that nature follows such cycles. Taking this into account we must now ask ourselves two questions.


    •Do these natural influences affect man in any way, internally or externally and if so what are those influences.

    If your answer to this question is no there is no effect on man then for you the question is solved and there is no point considering the second question. If however your answer is yes then perhaps you should consider the second question.

    •If there are effects on man how can these be utilised or taken advantage of in training?


    When the question is put like this does it still sound like wooo wooo or pointing at the moon or does it sound simply like nature and man?

    As I said before there are many Chinese arts which take such influences into account. I was just curious to see if it’s the same with Silat.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2006
  2. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    Your statement spans the divide from "indisputable" to "out beyond the Oort cloud". Without a little more precision it's hard to say exactly what you're asking.

    Does the natural world affect people? Of course.

    Does this mean that astrology and all sorts of magical thinking should be accepted at face value simply because people believed in them at some time in the past? No.

    You see how there's a huge gap between the two. To accept or reject one has to look a little more carefully.

    Theories like the Four Humors, Four Elements and much of the physiological basis of Traditional Chinese Medicine are simply wrong. We know better now. Astrology is a quaint model of the universe. It's got no relation to external physical reality. Contagious and sympathetic magic likewise.
     
  3. RAMANA1

    RAMANA1 New Member

    i would have to agree with todds writings,but would like to hear about the tenaga delam of the pancar(of alexander the great) of the vdt academy..do you even realize how foolish this sounds???????jerry jacobs of cimande.net has a good tenaga dalam dvd-good breath work and sound advice on energy work... :D
     
  4. Tuankaki

    Tuankaki Valued Member

    It seems to me that breaking down practice into seasons would help to keep the pesilat tuned up in a densly populated system, where you just cannot practice "everything" "all the time".
     
  5. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Well it is said that man is a microcosm i.e. all the components of the macrocosm (universe) exist in him. If that is true then wouldn’t changes in the macrocosm cause corresponding changes in the microcosm (man)?
     
  6. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    I still don't get it :confused:

    Is this a Dutch/Indo perspective, because for the 2nd time there are not four seasons in Indonesia.

    They have two. Wet season and Dry season.
     
  7. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Ok I will try to explain it another way. I’m sure you’ve seen how at a certain time of year flying ants come up out of the ground in masses only for 2 or 3 days a year. You don’t see them all year and suddenly there everywhere for a few days.
    Those of you that live near the sea may notice that at a certain night of the year turtles come out of the sea and lay their eggs in the sand and likewise on a certain night the young turtles make their way back to the sea.
    Think of a bear hibernating, a frog spawning, a salmon jumping, it’s all triggered by external influences.
    How do those creatures know when it is the correct time, do they sit watching the moon or do they FEEL something?
    Within humans similar things happen but we no longer FEEL those things because we have drifted away from Nature. Someone who has this knowledge might be able to utilise it in a useful way in their training. I’m not talking about mysticism or anything like that, just nature and natural things.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2006
  8. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Yeah, I get you :rolleyes:

    Seasons, gravitational pull of the moon, melatonin levels affected by sunlight, modern stress triggering fight/flight response without the fight or flight....et cetera ad infinitum.

    Yes, our modern environment is artificial. Yes, in the not too distant past our very survival depended on being 'in tune' with the seasons.

    Yep, we're all dying of adrenaline poisoning :eek:

    Just the four seasons bit that I was on about.
     
  9. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    Rain, warmer rain, less rain, no rain :p
     
  10. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    They are the four British seasons :D
     
  11. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    The seasons were derived by observing plant life. Spring, a time when vegetation springs up out of the soil. Summer, a time of fruit, harvest. Autumn, a time when vegetation finishes its growth spurt and some die. Winter, a time of dormancy.

    I would be very surprised if plant life in Indonesia does not follow this pattern. If it does then Indonesia has 4 seasons even if the change is not as dramatic as in colder countries.
     
  12. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    I’m not sure we are dying of adrenaline poisoning. The human body simply adapts so that it takes a higher stress level to trigger the adrenaline flow then would be naturally the case.
    Fact is that humans are now living longer then ever before, however I am sure we could all live longer :)
     
  13. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    I'd be willing to bet good money that it's a teaching method which Pak Victor came up with, one of his own contributions to the Art. Guru Plinck's reaction was "Pendekar Paul never said anything about that." A couple people who had studied other lineages of Serak in Indonesia said "Huh?" At least one of Guru Victor's former senior students (one of the ones who was put in the Memory Hole) said it was something he suddenly started teaching one day.

    So I'd guess it's an expression of his personal style, lacking any evidence to the contrary.
     
  14. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member

    Yep, sort of like the three lines that have showed up recently -- Mas Djut, Mas Rhoen, and Pak Sera. Until a couple years ago, nobody in Sera(k) had ever heard of this. Then one day, Pak Vic began teaching it. I won't say that he came up with that interpretation, but in an interview with Steve Gartin, for the defunct magazine(s) Fighting Knives/Streetfighter, Gartin -- then one of Pak Vic's seniors, but now booted out and affiliated with Uncle, aka Grandpa Willem de Thouars -- Pak Vic had this to say about it:

    "When people speak of Silat Serak, there is only one line to Pak Serak, not two or three."

    Wonder where the other two came from ... ?
     
  15. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Well I don’t know about what teachings involving seasons etc they use in Sera(k) and even if those teachings are recent additions to Sera(k). Perhaps pak Victor observed these teachings from other silat schools and decided to borrow/incorporate it into Sera(k), in which case it may be new to sera(k) but not new to silat.

    There are four cycles that affect the body: The rotation of the earth (day & night), the cycle of the moon (lunar phase), the yearly orbit of the earth round the sun (12 houses) and the seven year cycle.
    Just as different species of plants flower at different times in the year, the bud bursting open and producing nectar there are points in the human body which open and close in a similar rhythmical sequence which corresponds to the mentioned cycles. As these points open they release nectar into the blood stream. This effects the functioning of the body in a number of ways, including animal instinct (brain function). It is this effect on the brain which causes turtles to KNOW the time is right for laying their eggs.
    A woman’s menstrual cycle is likewise generated and you may be interested to know that men also have a cycle though not as obvious as with a woman :D
    As stated these points open and close under external natural influences however those who have an understanding of the science of mudra can artificially open or close a point at will and this can be utilised in a number of ways including development of particular facultys and defensive methods.
     
  16. realitychecker

    realitychecker New Member

    4th "Line" of Serak(R)

    I think that this is where the "spaceship blue prints" come from. These people landed in Vic's village when he was 1 1/2 yrs old, and implanted the pantjar into his memory. This will be great "dalem", or "rahsia" research for Serakmurid Andrew and his E.M. pals to prepare for new sheep.

    http://cosmicfighting.741.com/

    Maybe by then Buddy will take a chill pill!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2006
  17. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Celestial Grandmaster!!! wow I am honoured!
    When I heard the title something deep inside told me he must be an American :rolleyes:
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    I just remembered, isn’t there a village in Indonesia where they build their houses in an arc shape and say they came to earth on a spaceship that crashed. Maybe they have returned to finish what they started :D
     
  19. realitychecker

    realitychecker New Member

    New 'Lineage' Wars in the Making

    Grandmaster George :Alien: will melt "Maha :eek: Guru" Victor's .45 gun barrel with his "phototonic energy". Don't believe it? Got to that site and look it up. Soon, the VDT and the GCD academies will be battling over this lineage. Who will (R) it first????

    ps-lots of "dalem" :Alien:!!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2006
  20. Buddy

    Buddy Valued Member

    "Maybe by then Buddy will take a chill pill!!"

    So in private you will greet me and send regards from your teacher, but in public you suggest I take a "chill pill?" I suggest that Pak Vic is your elder and whatever issues you may have with his "revisions" and the DeThouars family's way of treating others, there is no need for this sort of crap.
     

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