India - The Home of the Martial Arts

Greece is the sourse of martial arts

There have been many Greek settlements in the northwestern part of India from the time of Alexander's campaigns so it is very plausible that they brought with them Pankration so the origin of Martial arts is Greece.

One source

another

 

Yikes. If that's what you call a short essay, it's more like a freakin' novel. But very intersting. Although i still doubt it. There are some things that not even written and researched things are not completely the truth.


No personal offense.

 

I believe that martial arts did not just come from one part of the world, but from all sections of the world, and so as culture interlated with one another developed one anothers arts, making the arts we know today, that is taught in nearly every country across the planet...

Please note, i did say nearly every country...

 

Please read the original posting again, folks. It is awesome in tracking the progress of MA from India to the orient (and then on to the west). I have seen Kalari in India and it is obvious (to me, at least) that my aikido and several other Japanese and Chinese arts share a common development, probably from India. Of course, nobody can prove anything after thousands of years have passed, but as India was trading with many nations and as MA and Buddhism are often linked in their path from India to China, Japan, Korea, etc. it seems churlish to deny the most likely solution: Many of our oriental arts derived from India - there is simply too much coincidence to claim that they all developed the same techniques in isolation. There's certainly plenty of documentaton of the trade and travel.

As for the view that the British taught the Indians anything - forget it. We just did our usual plundering and interference, giving them new weapons of destruction and new diseases - as usual, they survived the Christian and the Moslem invaders and grew in strength. The greatest lesson they taught the orient and the west was to indulge less in our ego. We have no right of ownership over our arts - at least we should recognise the claim of one of their creators with humility and respect.

 

What about the Ayrian and Celtic migrations across this region, (before the plundering and looting). There has been scientific evidence recently (Discovery Channel Has a lot of info you know) that the Celts help to build the 1st Great wall of China (apparently it was built up to 7 times), and they have stated in one documentry I watched that the Mongol people have Celtic genetics within certain parts of their nation. Makes you think.


Some ancient caves were veiwed near the Great Wall in this program were by this Documentary showed some cave paintings which depicted a large Red Headed and Beared man standing in Norther European (Celtic) dress along side what was obviously a picture of an Oriental Man in Chinese silks, this was dated back over 3000 years before the British invaded looted and plundered India.

A few years ago archiologists Discovered two graves, one in China and one in Denmark, Both graves where said to be Celtic sites, The one on China was the Body of a man in his 30's wearing plaid (Tartan), the one in Denmark was the Body of an older man wearing Chinese Silk, Both countries wear known for there martial (combat) Skills, these sites dated over 2000 years old. Before the British invaded looted and plundered India.

Mmmm, think about it, who gave who what??? That's my point. Did the Chinese give MA to the Celts, did the Celts give it to the Chinese, did either one of them give it to India who in return gave it back to China, who knows, there is more and more evidence being discovered that proves that many nations were trading with each other long long before most people realised.

What about the Egyptian Mummies that have Cocain in their DNA, a plant that could only be found in S. America at the time of the Ancient Egyptians, how do can this be explained apart form admiting that both nations had to have traded with each other. Pyramids found in Egypt, China and S. America, so maybe S. America brought MA to Afirca and Asia. we will never know

 

For instance, The Eskimo and the American Indian Nations genetic code can be traced back to South East Asia.

It's a known fact that the Vikings discovered America long before Christopher Columbus.

The Arabs must have traded with Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines long beofre the Spaniish and Dutch discoverd them, because most of these nations were Muslim long before the Spanish and Dutch discoverd them. There was also a Jewish Nation in Afirica. Need I go on.

So to say that India Gave MA to the Orient is abosolite folly. No nation goes into battle without the knowledge of martial skill to do so would mean this nation would be obliterated and over run.

The Vandals (Mongols) and the Barbarians (Northern European's) sacked Rome together, they must have traded and exchanged martial skills to be able to work together. You cant keep your martial skills a secret when you fight side by side or against each other. Nations learn martial skills by working together of fighting each other, this is a fact. So no one nation can lay claim to teaching a whole continent how to fight.

 

Pi qua quan may have came from the indians and that developing oriental arts from China, it didnt come originally from India, thats what i am getting at, thats why i had a stand up arguement with my indian friend when he said that mosts things come from Indian, as if we were all stupid and couldnt makes anything ourselves...

But i do admit, there are some things that come from indian, that we would have never thought came from there

 

very interesting article. a good read
even though I am a slow reader.

Would like to add that would say it is more the origin of eastern martial arts rather than the home of all martial arts.

there are many martial arts around that came from other origins.
for example Boxing came from stick fighting in England 100s of years ago.

From what I've learnt the jumping kicks were used to take people off horses. These were then carried on through the syllabus from kungfu to Karate. TKD was created from what they learnt from Karate/kungfu, and created in the 40/50s from what was originally kicks used to take people off horses.

 

Nope, Battlefields were full of dudes bearing Billhooks, Halbards, Glaives, Naginatas, Poleaxes etc, to take warriors off of horses (or indeed to just take out horses from under them).

No need to spring about like Super Chicken doing jump spinning doodad kicks when you have a Pole Arm to completely wang somebody with (and no you don't make a habit of losing your pole-arm so that you then have the hinky excuse of a mile long run up and doing a Flying Side Kick...)..:bang:

 

I didn't think that people always were in a battlefield with weapons.
The battlefield wasn't the only place with people on horses trying to attack you.

and no need to spring about like a super chicken doing doodad kicks when you can punch an attacker in the noggin

 

Battlefields without weapons, are you Insane?

I can imagine the Crusaders shaking in the armoured boots when the 'Totally Unarmed and Unarmoured Army of Doom Laden Flying Kickers' comes over the horizon.Run Away Run Away!

Honestly this sort of nonsense is put about by people nutty enough to believe that Empty hand techniques are more effective than Weapons. Pile of Pants. A myth forever repeated throughout korean MArtial Arts to make an excuse for Flying Side Kicks etc.

Battlefield+Weapons=War
Battlefields-Weapons=Pantomime.

And it's really difficult to punch somebody mounted on a horse in the head, as they are on a horse....and usually wearing a large metal thing on their head, called a Helmet, which would cause your hand to break, unless you yourself were wearing armour in the form of gauntlets.

 

should re-type what I meant:
they weren't always on a battelfield (with weapons bit was added as battlefields have people using weapons, hence battelfield with weapons.)

but thanks to jumping to the conclusion that I am misguided.

secondly, I meant punching someone unmounted, a opposed to jumping kicking them - which is, I am assuming, what you are implying the only situation it was developed for use in.

what have you learnt on the origin on jumping kicks, and there intended use over a standing kick/punch?

 

Agree that India contributed some to China's martial development, but certainly not the bulk of it. Regardless of whether Da Mo actually went to the Shaolin temple, it's very unlikely that he invented the Shaolin fighting arts. He may have founded Shaolin exercises but it's just plain doubtful that he had anything to do with the fighting part. Even if he did, they were supposed to have been more or less reinvented afterward.

Besides that, there's a number of Chinese styles that don't have a visible Indian precursor. Baiyun Tongbei comes to mind. Baguazhang comes to mind. Numerous styles that are based almost entirely off Daoist concepts and medical theories. Unless India invented that too.

 

Throughout History people have gone about armed, particularly when going on journeys away from there home or about their business. Classic example would be the English Peasantry's use of the Quarterstaff as a Deadly weapon of self-defence.

The only time you are going to be punching somebody when armed either on a battle-field or during a civilian encounter, is when
1) You can't get to your weapon

Or 2) You are shoulder to shoulder grappling with weapons and the opportunity to strike, kick, shove etc someone reveals itself.

For examples of this see books such as the Flos Duellatorum by Fiore Del Libre (1400s Italian Manual on all aspects of Medieval warfare). Also Talhoffer, Mazzoro etc etc. Not much flying about there and those guys are wanging about some serious battlefield and civilian weaponry.

I feel that the majority of Flying Kicks, Jumping Kicks in most Eastern MArtial Arts are from a Civilian tradition and Do Not represent any aspect of Military training, other than in the fantasized imaginings of people who write Martial Arts Comics. Most, not all.

Certainly there can and is a purpose to Jumping and Flying techniques, but I feel that their purpose has either become diluted or lost to us now and replaced with a phony pile of hokum marketed as traditional and authentic.

That doesn't stop them being enjoyable though.

 

continuing in a different thread as I feel this is off topic here

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=326664#post326664

 

Are you sure, this too can be open for debate, It is also a known fact that at one time there were several species of Human, Homo Sapien being the later.

Who is to say that the other species of Human (who have aparently died out) did not devlop on another continent. And who is to say that they did not die out but could may well have been bred out. The only thing that is lacking her is lack of evidence, but lack of evidence does not mean it did not happen.

Up until recently it was lack of evidence that made people think that Christopher Columbus Discovered America.

In every other Animal Species in the world we have countless diferent breed's, can it then be safe to assume that this too was something that was common amongst the human species of animal??? or are we to assume that we are unique???, I am sure neanderthal man did not think so.

 

Most history is based on a poloticians point of veiw of the world and is passed on to the population he/she lives within.

Even some modern day archiologists deny certain things to be possible although the evidance is staring them in the face. Look (as I mentioned before) at the ancient Egyptian Mummy's that have traces of Cocain within their DNA, at the time it was thought that the only place you could get a Cocain plant was in South America. So how did the Mummy's get this substance into their DNA, it's not exactly and natural substance produced by the human body is it.

 

Note every battle is Army v. Army. Tribal groups used to fight all the time. Villages would get raided etc. And I don't know the true history of TKD, but I have heard from kung fu and TKD practitioners that the extremely high kick techniques are cool, but relics.