Independents

Why do you keep asking the same question that has already been answered? Did you not read it perhaps? If it is a matter of not believing the answer you have gotten, why don't you go to Japan and find out?:dunno:

I know of a few of the Shihan personally who have had all kinds of experience with using violence. Some of the things you would probably be suprised to hear. However, the only way for you to find out is to come to Japan and ask them, since you apparently don't want to make the effort to find out, you probably should stop asking(because you are starting to sound like the Rainman).

The problem is that unless you are teaching CQC(and if you are you should be on another forum), your claimed experience doesn't really impress. Okay, you got a police recommendation years ago and were shot at supposedly. Are you claiming that it was anything special you learned or applied that made the person(s) shooting at you miss, or was it plain dumb luck?

Your continued mention of your vast experience might impress some(besides your students that is) but others aren't as equally impressionable. Another point that is important to understand is that experience and its meaning varies. If luck or the lack of skill on the part of your adversary played a great role in your past successes, it would suggest that what you have to offer might not be as tried and tested as you wish everyone to believe. Hatsumi sensei and others have taught various military and police groups as well, so what does that have to say about what those agencies thought about their abilities?

So on one hand (Bujinkan) we have people with the skill and enough experience to know what they are talking about. On the other, we have a person who created his own martial art in England with a Japanese name, whose skill in the Takamatsuden is questionable, yet who claims to have a wealth of experience in r34l combat! The only problem is that there are people with deeper resumes that already have the goods when it comes to CQC so it appears the "Japanese connection" that you claim is an attempt at marketing. So if we wanted advice on CQC why would anyone need to go to you? If we were instead interested in traditional Japanese martial arts why would we need to go to you? In either case there really isn't any motivation for anyone to see you out.

 

Interesting opinion, thank you for sharing. You are probably right, it is better to stay in the UK teaching Hikendo.

So what is Hikendo?

 

I will not try to get the last word in after a mod warning

 

I am sure Hatsumi would not have kept faith with the Japanese Shihan if he did not think they could all apply his art in a real situation.
It is unthinkable that people so skilled would not understand reality.
But I do stress "Japanese" not some 15th Dan Dentist from Suburbia.

 

I don't know, Dentists have been known to knock people out, use sharp things on them, and mess with their nerve endings. Plus, I thought I also read somewhere they've been known to be a bit mental. Sounds kind of ninjery to me.

 

You mean like Seno sensei?

 

Reality Please posted

Has it, Ok so who in Japan has experience in real self defence as part of their role?

Why am I going to spend thousands of pounds to find out when actually you should be able to say X has this experience through years working as a police officer/security guards etc.

As far as i'm aware Nagato has experience as a kick boxer, Manaka as military, Tanemura as Polucde officer (The later two now left) so whose left. Its an easy enough question.

Who and where?

This to me sounds like a cop out. Its like me saying that i'm not going to mention my self defence experience unless you com to my dojo.

I actually teach PI (Physical Intervention) as part of the SIA licence for door supervisors.

Okay, you got a police recommendation years ago and were shot at supposedly. Are you claiming that it was anything special you learned or applied that made the person(s) shooting at you miss, or was it plain dumb luck?

Whats the shooting got to do with anything. the facts are that I served as a police officer and had to use what I was teaching as a method of self dfence, something i did on numerous occasions, and prior to that in security where I was carrying out nearly 200arrests a year.

I'm not trying to impress just put my background into perspective.

absolutely and people like Hayes have taught the FBI, American Air force academy, SAS and SEALS.

The problem seems to be with you tht you ask for experience, and when it is given you come back with "well that doesn't count anyway"

The Japanese shihan supposably?

Never said I have a wealth of experience, but enough to have experienced what happens in combat.

Of course there is.

No. I m teaching a Japanese based martial art that has been updated with modern method and experience in self defence situations.

If people wanted Bujinkan then indeed people could go to Japan, but i don't think for one moment that the Bujinkan shihan are teaching self defence, and if they are they are doing so with little or no experience.

in your opinion. But of course your opinion is that most people in the Bujinkan are doing it wrong anyway, and its only those few that live in Japan that have a chance of getting it. Unfortunately even those that have lived in Japan do not sem to be that switched on when it comes to real self protection.

 

Reality Please posted

And the same goes for you as you continue to hide behind a false naame and still will not answer who your instructor is. So if anyone is hiding anything its you.

In Bujinkan yes.

I am yes, and it would be nice to see some, but in view of lack of evidence I know where i'm steering. Similarly you have no idea whats happening in my dojo so you are also arguing from a lack of evidence.

Answering a question maybe. but isn't it interesting that I didn't stay around to be part of this empire?

When did I say that?

I think you need to reread what I posted again.

You see assuming again. you have already said that no one here can speak for my quality how can you say that I can't do the kihon?

Its a money issue when it comes to paying for the dojo yes. f you think that I make any money out of this you are very wrong. My dojo costs several hundred pounds a month, in fact most months I am out of pocket.

 

the unholy posted

I don't think thats actually a worry of mine, but theres always people open enough to be aallowed to join.

I don't know. Actually out of alll the Bujinkan guys I have met I Norman seems the most reasonable and helpful. The decision would of course have to be with him, and giveen the chance I would train with Norman again.

Possibly

I actually ahve a lot of respect for Norman.

Well if you say so, but I have laid out my reasoning.

To be honest for me it would be a lot less stress to just quit what i'm doing and join the local Bujinkan group, but at present I don't think it would fulfill what I want out of martial arts.

 

Maybe if you had spent all the time you have been posting on MAP for the last couple of years trying to earn money, you would have been able to save up enough for a trip to Japan.

 

This thread will get locked if people cant accept that perhaps they are training for different reasons and have different goals.

 

Actually, I kind of doubt you make much money from your martial arts. Geoff Thompson et al have better stuff than you and nobody seriously looking for Japanese arts would stick around after hearing your story. Perhaps that should tell you something.

 

That is a pretty good point there.

One point sometimes made out is that most of the Bujinkan hasn't learned the real teachings or that there are so few that actually know what they are doing, doesn't to me anyway make for a good case that if someone wants to learn they should go to the Bujinkan.

I wished I had the coin to train with a decent Shihan, however I could only afford to sample some of them when I came to Japan.

 

Good point. However, a lot of threads get locked and often it boils down to people refuse to listen. Now a person I am thinking of has been on MAP for 5 years and has done the same thing they are doing with me since then. I know it is silly to think that they will change, either their mind, their story, or their posting method. Yet somewhere deep down inside, I still have hope for them, that maybe they will open their eyes and come back to reality. I guess I am a hopeless romantic.:love:

All the answers to this person's questions are a flight away. Now he can either do what it takes to make that flight, or stay blind to the reality of a certain Japanese art that he spends an inordinate amount of time discussing online(probably more actual hours than he did learning it from an authentic source). For some reason he just won't let it go, yet refuses to really dig in and learn the truth. A lot of these hangers on can be found in life so it is illuminative and entertaining if nothing else.

 

And perhaps the reason why almost all koryu arts are kept small and selective. They are not for the masses or mass consumption. They have been able to be passed down for centuries this way and that will not change.

The Takamatsuden will also continue to be passed down this way, even after Hatsumi sensei retires and the masses move on to other things.

 

I am fairly sure Gary is not in competition with Geoff Thompson.
If he is doing as he says he is,and I dont see any reason to doubt him,I feel he will have a good market.It is what many people are looking for.
RP i think if the training you get was available to Gary he would be a diligent member of the Bujinkan.But Japan is not even a remote possibility for most martial arts practitioners who already have a life.
It come back to a different idea of what a martial art is.
Clearly it is different for you two.
Personally I would be happy to be taught by either of you as you both see it in a way that would be beneficial to someone like me who has dipped his toe in both.

 

The Takamatsuden will also continue to be passed down this way, even after Hatsumi sensei retires and the masses move on to other things.


Well I believe that when that day comes there will be more Kan's spring up than you can shake a stick at.And all with the correct teaching credentials

 

Well, there are plenty of us trying to get folks back to they way things are being done in Japan rather than cling to the mistakes that people like Stephen Hayes and the early guys passed on. They tried their best, but it is only now that folks that have lived in Japan for over a decade have come back and started to really teach.

 

Well, for me to accept that I would have to believe that you are dealing with us in good faith. The truth is, you really have never given us much reason to think that you do so.

Your frequent tactic of trying to make people who are here using a screen name to give their real one is an example. In this case, we know RP is living in Japan and studying under a Japanese teacher. He has made it clear he won't give either his name, or his teacher's. Yet you keep trying to push the issue and make it sound like he is hiding something or lying. It is not the first time we have seen this. Really Garth, if you don't like the fact that people don't have to give their names, why are you here?

And really, after all the times that we found out what you were saying was not exactly the whole story, it is hard to trust anything is as you present them, like you real world experiences or your reason for leaving the Bujinkan. For a long time there, we thought you were studying under Norm, and then we found out in all that time you had only gone to two sessions with him. To me, that indicates you were doing just the minimum to get an affiliation, while your main drive was in teaching.

The thing is, as much as you talk about lack of skill or lack of real world experience, I can't see how that would have been a factor with you training with Norm, who has a lot of both. When you packed up your toys and left the Bujinkan, you gave up training with him- not that you showed much interest in doing so before that.

And if you look at this thread you do not see you listing the reasons you give here for you leaving. Instead, we can see you posting a video clip (later taken down in shame) and people commenting on it. Most of the comments were not complimentary. In fact, the general consensus seems to be that you were not moving at the level of a black belt despite your long time in the art. You then said you were severing your connection with the Bujinkan, not training with anyone like Norm and that our comments about how bad your omete gyaku and movement was because we were looking at things from a viewpoint of Bujinkan and you were no longer Bujinkan.

Now you are saying something different, but I just can't believe it. You were a person that was considered very unskilled in the Bujinkan and rather than be judged by others like that you now are a teacher and call the shots once again. You did not go to the Genbukan or Jinenkan to further your knowledge, so I just have to look at you as someone who likes being looked up to as a teacher and hates being a mere student.

And that is how some of us look at you, as well as most people that start their own style of martial arts- not just ninjutsu styles.