In your opinion, what eskrima style is the best for kempoists?

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by shaolinmonkmark, Feb 26, 2007.

  1. oosh

    oosh Valued Member

  2. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    akja wrote yesterday:

    "Do you have me confused with someone?"

    As my observations were addressed directly to you, I am certainly not confused, and the tone of the above does smell of sarcasm. Correct...I do not know you. I neither want to or need to. I can read your words extremely well. I assume nothing from your comments...they speak clearly enough. In your own words and in a direct reply to my post, you stated:

    "I didn't see anything there that set them apart from the average Eskrima school except having an action film star instructor and that does not guarantee "realistic" instruction and also that they are "expensive."

    Bearing in mind the fact Kali Ilustrisimo is considered by many to be very advanced, and indeed, extremely effective, efficient and practical, your comments are offensive and totally unfounded. As Oosh has mentioned, by calling the art "average" you are also stating by default, that the instructor is average. :woo:

    Ha Ha Ha Stop using projection to wriggle out of your own blunder. I do not need to bend your words. I am simply pointing out that, when a person asks for advice, it is NOT professional or relevant to make comments such as yours. If you didn't mean to have a direct dig, then why did you need to highlight the words "realistic" and "expensive." Also, why do you now feel the need to justify yourself by posting details from the Bakbakan International website? I can assure you that the expenses that you have cited are no more than those of Suro Jason Inay when he has taught in the UK.

    Whether or not GM Cabales wanted to promote a person to Master grade or not has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, or the rudeness of your remarks. This is a smoke-screen to cover up for your offensive comments.
    It is still a fact that the work of Mark Wiley has certainly helped to raise the profile of the FMA. Whether or not you like him, or are simply jealous of his achievements is of no interest at all. At a stage in your life when you still need to hide behind a pseudonym, Mr Wiley has helped to generate global interest in the FMA.

    As mentioned before...go to the Philippines. You will be very surprised at what you learn there. After all, we are talking Filipino martial arts...not American!!! :D :D :D


    Last edited: Mar 1, 2007
  3. Pacificshore

    Pacificshore Hit n RUN!

    Ok, are we done now?? I don't think at this point the original poster will gain much from this type of exchange. So, let's get back on track to the original post.
  4. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    Well said...please note that the so-called "exchange" did start on your side of the pond.

    I have pointed out twice that these remarks are not helpful, or professional, in answering the original request for information from shaolinmonkmark.

    Gumagalang (respectfully)


    Punong Guro Peter Lewis
    Head Instructor to the Bahad Zu'Bu Kali Ilustrisimo WHQ
    Senior UK Representative Bakbakan International
    England Representive for the Philippine Council of Kali Eskrima Arnis Masters
    Director for the British Council of Kali Eskrima Arnis Instructors
  5. shaolinmonkmark

    shaolinmonkmark Valued Member

    I didn't mean to open any cans of worms!!!

    I am sorry if i have opened up cans of worms on M.A.P.
    I do know that when a fee is charged, hey, the school feels that is what they should charge for the Tuition, it's just part of life.
    I will research all of these posted and get back to you all.
    Thank you all for all the Helpful advice!!!!
    On youtube, type in snake fist, and there are 3 forms you can learn from the southern/and northern Shaolin Temples.
    You will have to watch these 3 over and over again, as 2 of them are really really fast!!!! :woo:
  6. Matthew Barnes

    Matthew Barnes Valued Member

    How's this one.

    I've had the chance to try Modern Arnis, and found it fit very nicely with the empty hand concepts of the East Coast / Shaolin Kempo I was doing at the time. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

    I also have had some experience with the Amok group (sort of related to Pekiti Tirsia, but an independent entity all its own) of Tom Sotis, and found that his knifework really filled in some gaps / weaknesses in my kempo knife defenses, and conceptually was really strong in gearing toward a combat mindset.

    My current teacher teaches Cinco Teros as part of his Kempo. It is pretty seamless in its integration into his kempo.

    The only one I've tried that didn't fit really well was a Largo Mano system that used a really long stick, and although effective in its own way, just didn't mesh with Kempo that well.

    Essentially, most FMA styles will complement kempo well. Find a teacher you enjoy. Odds are (75% in my experience) you will find something that fits well, and if it doesn't you should be able to tell right away.

  7. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Thanks for the information on the youtube, I'll check it out later. As has been mentioned if you find someone you like and can get to easily, most of the FMA is very good stuff.

    I used to live in Carlsbad. Right around the corner from the Piggly Wiggly market. 1963-64time frame. My first son was born in the Tri City Hospital and we lived in a brand new apartment.
    Moved there from Oceanside when I got out of the Corps. Worked for Oceanside lumber. Then got into the carpenter's union... Memories. LOL

  8. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    All I will say is try the style that is nearest to you first and if you do not like it, try another.

    I would recommend the following:
    Pekiti Tirsia Kali, top style and one of my first expeariances in FMA training with Tuhon Bill McGrath. cant rate it enough.

    Inayan Serrada, I was lucky enough to have also trained with the late Suro Mike Inay, again I cant rate his system enough, a top class system.

    Doce Pares, well I train in Doce Pares and I am a life member so that say's a lot as to what I think of Doce Pares, and it is not all armour and head gear sparring for those that think it is, that is just the sport side and makes but 1 per cent of what Doce Pares is all about.

    Kali Ilustrisimo, Well again I was lucky enough to meet the late GM Tatang and Master Rickets, I have also been lucky enough to meet GM Yuli, Master Rey Galang and GM Tony Diego, unfortunately the late Master Sulite died a couple of weeks before I was due to meet him here in the UK. When people say Ilustrisimo Kali is well respected in the Philippines, this is an understatement. the late Tatang and his senior members have the highest regards from many of the other major styles in the Philippines. So I say try that one too.

    As for saying a system is too expensive, I say compared to what? The rates I have seen posted here seem to me to be quite reasonable, especially for someone of Master Rickets standing. And especially as there are others out there that are charging way in excess of this fee, $5000 plus Expenses for some and one guy even charges more, but obviously they feel the price warrents their valued time.

    Don't let price put you off I say as cheapness is also not a sign of greatness, there are top guys out there that charge what some would consider epxensive and there are top guys who charge next to nothing, but also there are charletans who also charge a lot to give the impression they are better tha they actually are.

    Top FMA styles that I know of that I would highly recommend in the USA:
    (in no particular order)

    Doce Pares Multi Style System
    San Miguel Eskrima
    Doce Pares (GM Cacoy's style)
    Ilustrisimo Kali
    Inayan Serrada Eskrima
    Pekiti Tirsia Kali
    Modern Arnis
    Balintawak Arnis / Eskrima
    Sinkoteros (GM Max Pallen's system)
    Lameco Eskrima

    I am sure there are more, but these recommendations are based on my own personal expeariance, and I am sure they will all charge different fees, it is not the fee you pay that counts, it is the knowledge you can gain that is more important.

    Best regards

    Last edited: Mar 1, 2007
  9. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    I know for a fact that many of the seminars that are put on around the Stockton area by GM Somera (Giron Arnis Escrima line) are not only reasonable but any thing that is extra gets donated to very worthy cause's.

    I have heard that it goes toward helping many in the Filipino world for charities and benefits for many who fall through the cracks of Government assistance. I have even heard that much of it gets back to the Philipines to help people over there.

    This has been going on for years and years. GM Leo Giron had the same kind heart, his inheritor of the system maintains that bent. :Angel:

    Very admirable to say the least.

  10. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    There are many FMA groups that (regardless of what they charge) put back in to the art and culture.

    For instance, Doce Pares and GM Dionisio Canete sponsor less well of children through the education system from junior school and right through to university and the only condition they have is that the sponsored person keeps good grades and practices FMA. and Many of the Doce Pares senior members help with this program with many of them individually sponsoring individuals, myself included. This is only fair as the art has given so much to us it is only right we give something back.

    Best regards

  11. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    My friend, I'm not hiding anything. If you make my words to be more than I write, not a problem. I do try to write clear to make my point and not lead someone on. I only mentioned Wiley because "you" referanced him and some of "his" peers who are more accomplished and well known don't think much of him and the group he trained with. That pretty simple without spreading the dirt.

    You also said:
    "While this is a great plug for a great martial art, in the context that you in response to my post, you are again way out of line. "

    That is why I asked you if you confused me with somebody else because up to that point I only posted ONCE in my lifetime to your posts. I never heard of you up to that point.

    I never intended to put down your system or any FMA. It is my beleif that the FMA ingeneral are one step ahead of most martial arts out there. I've said it many times that if I never got involved with JKD I would be a pure FMA'er (today).

    While you "interpet" my posts to be "pop shots" you on the other hand are flat out taking shots. I haven't called you anything like you called me "Mr. Sarcastic" in fact I refrained from it and expalined that the website that "you" posted is expensive and it is. It charges 2-3 times the average annual dues and twice as much per month as my instrucor charges which is average.

    Your site does imply that the training may be beetr because you have an action star teaching. Thats what I read and all I said was it does not equate to "realistic" just because he is an action star.

    As far as Jason goes, I do not know him. I referanced him only because he does certify the Inayan System as separate arts. I've seen it when he announced his promotions on the net. "You" said my instructors system "was not" 3 for the price of one and "I" offered you (easy enough proof to verify) that my instructor does charge one average fee for all that the Inayan Systems offers. BTW, there is no annual fee for his regualr students, but that is not average.

    Peter, have a good day. This is not a computer war. We just do not see things the same.
  12. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Pat, that is nice to know.
    I believe that is one of the reasons I truly like FMA.

    The kind people and yet they have such a destructive Martial art. We go there bang sticks or whatever, share ideas or learn new stuff.
    I saw that in the Tracy Senior Seminar.
    Richard Bustillos, Danny Inosanto and Rick Faye stuff.

    It is genuine not put on for the day they are real great, and nice people. So many are out there that are genuine and true legends in their own time.

    Hard to get to them all for seminars, but I am trying. :D

  13. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    I didn't catch this earlier. Am I being threatened?
  14. Pacificshore

    Pacificshore Hit n RUN!

    Well lets all try to be mature about this as everyone has differing opinions to begin with.
  15. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    Bwahahahahahaha Not unless you read it that way. :D Obviously, that is down to how you interpret my words.

    Let me explain it differently to you. I see from your websites that the FMA are probably not your main art, therefore you may be unaware of what I am about to tell you. As much as we love the FMA and have great confidence in its ability over most martial arts, the FMA remains a minority art. With that in mind, many people from different systems know eachother very well. In a nutshell, very often affending one person or group, results in many more people being offended. Both Pat and I have seen this exact thing happen only last year on quite a large scale.

    Enough said. If you want to continue the discussion in private, please feel free to contact me.


  16. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    Absolutely...James (akja) and I are about the same age and have both been involved in martial arts for around 34 years. That is "mature" in anyone's book. Just that we have different perspectives.

    As you will note, I have suggested continuing the discussion privately, if that is what James wants.


  17. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    You have mail.
  18. Pacificshore

    Pacificshore Hit n RUN!

    And that is perfectly fine so long as you both abide by the ToS :)

    Have a nice day!
  19. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    So do you! :D
  20. FightingMonk2k3

    FightingMonk2k3 Valued Member

    i've been told that Angel Cabalas and his escrima school is really good. last i remember, it's in stockton, california.

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