In a world full of guns...

Discussion in 'Ju Jitsu' started by Gengar, Aug 30, 2015.

  1. Gengar

    Gengar Valued Member

    In a world full of guns... why am I being forced into doing weapon training? In my last JJ school / class I was made to do weapon training which was one of the reasons I left. Why do they expect us to do this?

    How would you / can I go to my sensei and explain I have no interest in it.

    Please help.
  2. aikiMac

    aikiMac "BJJ Over 40" club member Moderator Supporter

    History of your art.
    Cultural knowledge.
    To better understand the root movements of the empty-hand form, so that you'll fight empty-handed even better.
  3. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    To understand how engagement range changes in self defence once any kind of weapon is involved.
    Because it's good for your shoulders and forearms.
    Because it helps build good timing/coordination/reaction speed.

    You can't expect the curriculum to change for you. If you don't like it then leave but I would recommend you stick with it. Good weapon training can be valuable as an aid to empty hand and great for conditioning.
  4. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I agree with SWC Sifuben. You can't expect a school to change its curriculum. If it is a small part of the training, just go to it and focus on the aspects of it that carry well into empty hand training.

    If it is a large part of training, leave.

    But next time check with potential future schools about how much of this training they have before signing up.
  5. Gengar

    Gengar Valued Member

    I'll just skip those lessons.
  6. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Oh, didn't know that was an option from your first post. You don't have to know it for testing?
  7. Gengar

    Gengar Valued Member

    I'm not sure but since I don't care about getting past 2nd dan I don't know.
  8. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    Why 2nd dan?
  9. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    :confused: Context please? Are you saying this because you are second Dan , so won't need to worry about testing? Or because this kind of stuff isn't in any tests until after second dan?
  10. Gengar

    Gengar Valued Member

    I haven't had to grade weapons and I'm a brown belt. Once I'm black belt I do not plan to grade any further.

    Edit: To be honest. I am a firm believer that the first three belts cover everything anyone needs in 'real life' and therefore plan to go back to basics and just study those three belts in so much detail. The other techniques taught are just to look good in my opinion example: rice bale throw.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
  11. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Thanks for the clarification.

    I get that. I just tested in TCC. There is no set curriculum at my level. It is more individual. Many students learn more forms. But I have very few new forms I want to learn and I am in no hurry to learn them. So I am delving back into forms I know in even more detail and wanting more instruction in moving step and fixed step push hands. So I totally understand what you are saying.
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    At that level you have barley left diapers

    Drop the ego, open your mind and you may learn something
  13. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    People do this for fun. If something doesn't interest someone, I see nothing wrong with that. And if his instructors don't mind him doing having this approach, let him do it.

    And no need to put down his accomplishments (rank) like that either.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    How is pointing out that a persons knowledge is not even close to being complete denigrating? I have been training for nearly 3 decades and am still learning.

    Would you prefer I told him he knew everything there is to know about a style at 1st dan? It isnt the case in any way shape or form and it does no one any favors to candy coat it

    And as the OP is clearly interested in combative aspects and not just "fun" then it counts double

    Weapons yield tremendous dividends but if there is a refusal to even look at them then the individual WILL miss out on a large part of the syllabus as well as the opportunity to develop combatively
  15. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I understand your greater point, but saying OP was barely out of diapers wasn't a very polite way of saying it. I personally do want people to post here without feeling shot down or their accomplishments/rank put down. Op has been very polite and hasn't made outrageous claims. Just discussed his (?) goals in his training.

    It isn't your point, it is the way you said it. The way you said it here, that you think his knowledge isn't as complete as he thinks it is is a lot more polite. If you want to get people to not shut off, have you ever thought this may be a better approach to get them to listen? If you don't care, fine. But that diapers comment was just not cool IMO. Enough so that I felt a need to voice my opinion about it.

    To get back to the original topic more, I actually don't list gun defenses at the top of my list of priorities either. I train the few techniques we learn on gun defense, But I skipped one seminar on the subject, as it just doesn't interest me and the seminar wasn't stuff in our curriculum.

    We had a second seminar on gun defense a couple of months ago. I would have skipped it too, but Sifu encouraged those of us in his Saturday sparring to take it, as we are going to be doing gun defense in our sparring class. So I took it to be able to do everything in our new style sparring classes. It actually was a lot more fun than I anticipated and I learned some good stuff.

    So, I do get what you are saying. But I also think nothing would have been wrong if I had chosen to not take the seminar either. People train for different reasons and I think that is ok. You are a professional, but most of us are not and don't need to train thinking about having to use this in our jobs.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
  16. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    The very simple answer is that if you are studying an art, you learn what the instructor is teaching and not what you specifically as an individual want to learn in every session. Obviously the students as a whole need to want to learn what the instructor is teaching otherwise the class would quickly die out, but specific preferences are very difficult to account for when teaching a group, especially if what the instructor is teaching is something he deems to be a core principle to the art.

    As for why you should learn them, there are a few reasons, namely:

    • Learning to use a weapon can improve your empty handed movement because everything has to be that much more precise when weapons are involved
    • It also gives you more defensive options if you manage to grab an improvised weapon
    • If you know how to use a weapon effectively it can be much easier learning to defend against that weapon
    • If we're talking about weapon defences, then just because guns exist doesn't mean you will only ever face guns. If this was your logic, why would you ever do a martial art in the first place? All you'd need is a gun and some shooting lessons.
    Of course, the final point which should be raised is the question of why you would study an art where you don't like a huge chunk of the syllabus when there are plenty out there which focus specifically on the areas you do want to study. Have you considered looking around for another style and transferring your knowledge in? That way the class won't have to operate around you and you can focus more on what you actually want to study.
  17. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    Explanation of how there was hours of research and effort put into finding a martial art, and this one is perfection personified, but being taught incorrectly by incompetent instructors in 3..2..1..
  18. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    *Country full of guns. I live in a country where the odds of me being shot are extremely low.

    As for "I dont want to learn weapons", well you have every right to not bother with it. It doesn't interfere with your goals so don't worry about it. Your a paying customer and you can get the service you want. However it is part of the art and you can't expect them not to teach it.

    Personally I recommend learning it. I'm a fighter(love saying that) and I go to the occasional kali class to learn about weapons because it's a real threat.
  19. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    I'm not expecting one answer in particular, so I'll give benefit of the doubt until the OP has a chance to address the various points raised.
  20. Gengar

    Gengar Valued Member

    I've read the thread. The reason I choose Jiu Jitsu (I also do ITF (General Choi) taekwondo) is because after looking at various other martial arts BJJ is too intimate for me and JJ is more about using the opponents momentum against themselves as I have a small body frame.

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