IMA anti grapple and anti lock

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by middleway, Sep 7, 2005.

  1. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    Got to love the TMA vs MMA fights. :p

    I have to agree with PKC on the whole calling yourself master thing, however calling someone else master is a sign of respect. If they are teaching you, then it is respectful to acknowledge them as your master.

    My master addresses himself by his first name, though when we talk to him we call him master. Outside of ma I would probably just call him Jay.
  2. wild_pitch

    wild_pitch Melt The Guns!

    yea me and my ancient barely 60 year old TMA.. =)

    i call my teacher *sir* not master or grand-master. personally i think master is a little much. i just don't really understand why people get their panties in a bunch about the title master. like i said i think it is irrelievent what people call themselves.

    if the system you study recognizes someone who has gotten to a certain point a master then whatever.. use it.

  3. Punch-Kik-Choke

    Punch-Kik-Choke Banned Banned

    Knee jerk reaction? not quite.

    It's nice to say such things to avoid making an actual point.

    Chip on my shoulder? More BS.

    You see, the difference with titles such as CEO, or President, is they are either A. voted on. Or B. Established through proven and professional means.

    Any fool can call himself a master, not everyone can claim to be president of the united states and be expected to be taken seriously. (unless your name ends in 'Bush')

    Doesn't "sifu' just mean "teacher"??

    the terms "sifu" and "sensai" are BS too, because we Speak English where I'm from, not japanese.

    Some people like BS titles that dont apply at all in western culture to make themselves feel better. The Fact of the matter is that we speak English and these terms are meaningless to people who dont give a rats butt about the Karate kid or the last Jet Li movie.

    You need to pull your face out of hollywoods backside and discover that we are ALL still learning. To claim to be a master implies that you dont eed to learn any more. It's garbage. Most "Masters" cant punch their way out of a paper bag.
  4. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    You really enjoy sweeping generalizations about everything, don't you?

    Couple of points, by the way

    1. "Sifu" is CHINESE not Japanese. There is an actual difference.

    2. You haven't actually made any points other than "I study MMA, we don't use titles, therefore no one else should". Ok, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, thanks. So is everyone else.

    3. We don't want to emulate Jet Li or the Karate Kid. We do accept that there are certain traditions which come along with certain arts, aand we elect to follow them. You don't. Fine. That doesn't make us all cultists.

    4. Who decides on "Master" titles? Ideally a governing body or the founder of the style. That's where my GM got his title from when he inherited the style while living in China.

    5. I agree that there are some geniuses out there who put a few techniques together, slap a few forms around, come up with some fancy name, and "create" a style so they can call themselves "Master". It's up to the students to figure out if it's the real deal or not. But that in now way, shape or foem takes away from the efforts of the legitimate Sifus, Sempais, Senseis, Masters and GMs out there.
  5. middleway

    middleway Valued Member

    and the thread digresses again ...

  6. wild_pitch

    wild_pitch Melt The Guns!

    uhm okay.. i think i made my point. not sure why you are so hostile. you seem to have answered my point below so i am not sure how i am avoiding making a point.

    i think the above point and tone of all you posts say different.

    sure well any fool can call themselves president or ceo that does not make them president or ceo. someone who is a *master* in martial arts should have reached a certain level in that art, just like someone who has a doctorate should have reached a certain level of proficency in their chosen field of study, both SHOULD be quantifiable. of course anyone can go around calling themselves a doctor or a master, that does not change that those terms refer to someone who has achieved a certain level of proficency in their fields.

    sure man when you run a school don't use them .. i really don't care. like i said i don't use any of these terms for my teacher.

    the word master is a term that is regularly used to refer to someone who is adept at their craft. i.e. master carpenter, of a master painter so personally i can see why it would be used this way in martial arts as well.

    heh wow you are so angry about this it is really great, i really don't understand. okay lets try this agan, these schools use these terms. if you want to participate in the system they teach, then you have to adopth the terminology. if not then do something else.

    sure we are all still learning, again i think that master is used in this way,


    An artist or performer of great and exemplary skill.
    A worker qualified to teach apprentices and carry on the craft independently.

    which does not imply that someone is done learning, just that they have great skill in their field.
  7. Punch-Kik-Choke

    Punch-Kik-Choke Banned Banned

    1. Yes, I'm well aware Sifu is chinese. You'll notice that in my statement sifu is the former title, and the latter is a japanese one. So I said "japanese". I didnt feel the need to name every languages interpretation of the word "teacher". Either you're trying to be insulting by implying I dont know the difference, or you're underestimating me. I've trained CMA's before. You're favorite actually, Wing Chun. We called our "master" "sifu".

    2. I dont "study" MMA. I train BJJ, Boxing, and Judo/wrestling currently. Does studying more than one art make me a MMA'er? I dont think I've mentioned MMA in this thread. No, I didn't. As much as I love MMA for it's ability to rip apart the traditional and replace it with the effective, that has no place in this particular thread.

    3. I've made several points I believe. The title thing should be pretty obvious, and I've yet to see why an american with no understanding of Japanese (or chinese) culture should throw words that have no relevence around. This isn't much or an "opinion" either. It's fact that most people who train get into it because of MOVIES AND TV. I started training after I saw "Enter The Dragon" for instance. I'm still trying to figure out what TKD has to do with bruce lee.

    But it sure was cool to bow and posture for no reason!

    You say I have no point, when clearly I do. Instead of tying to pass it off as opinion, I would like you to give me ONE reason why an american has ANY business throwing around words that he/she simply doesn't understand as well as their English counterparts. I'm waiting.....

    I've also made other points, like "who designates what a master is" and "We are all students, claiming mastership is nonsense" these are good points despite your disagreement with them.

    4. Who decides "master" titles? well in ManabimashoMan's case we know the answer dont we? The sad fact is that when you start to look into who designates being a ""master" you find a whole lot of BS regarding sokes and councils and schemes to part gullible people from their hard earned money.

    5. In my mind "legitimate" means "I can kick your butt 8 ways from Sunday".
    Unless that person can do it, and has proved it, I wont respect their title. William chueng was calling himself a master, even after Emin Boztape beat him like a schoolgirl.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2005
  8. MarcoPolo

    MarcoPolo New Member

    Like Grandmaster Helio Gracie, or Master Carlson Gracie? If I remember correctly, when I met Jacare in Atlanta, his school is Master JJ.

    I guess I see both sides. If you are a "Master" or "GrandMaster" and not basically a household name, a world champion, something... i'm a bit leery. I think we're all just tired of seeing the dorky non-athletic guy who works in Shipping and Receiving that is the 8th Degree "Master" or some nonsense style, or even worse the "buy your place in our council"-made it up myself style "Masters". :cool:

    As long as "Master" is an honorific based on a rank, i'm cool with it. I think that particular title is a bit odd in our society.. the thought that you have a master (outside of a religioius context.) Sensei, Sifu, Professor (in the BJJ world), Coach, "Bob".. whatever works.
  9. Punch-Kik-Choke

    Punch-Kik-Choke Banned Banned

    semantics though.

    In that context any founder of an art is a "grandmaster"

    Not really what I'm talking about, but point taken regardless.

    I'm refering to the ego somebody must have to claim mastery over any given art. Frankly it's not a claim any person can make.

    In regard to the Gracies though, Helio does not refer to himself as grandmaster (that I have seen, hear, or read) as a matter of fact in recent interviews he has shown annoyance at that sort of thing. He claims to at times wear a white belt through the streets of brazil to put things in perspective for those calling themselves Masters.

    Helio still rolls every day, and is still learning.
  10. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member


    That's about all I can say at this point.

    Punch, most of what you have said at this point consists of sweeping generalizations. I can't even respond to them, they're so outrageous. "Most MAers got started because of TV", "We're all students"? Good lord.

  11. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    Here Here - just keep the grounding there - Its a danger to belive your own hype.
  12. middleway

    middleway Valued Member

    agreed! with Sonshu

    We're all beginners .... never have the illusion your above anything or anyone .... thats normally when a smack down happens and your pride and ego also take a severe beating !! :D

    I have known people with many years MA experience quit alltogether ... because of their pride and ego. Its an easy trap ...

  13. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    If there's ever a poll for dumbest post on MAP ever... this one gets my vote! :D ROFLMAO
  14. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    ....until I read this one!!!!!LOL :D :D :D
  15. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    This guy should have his own show lol
  16. Punch-Kik-Choke

    Punch-Kik-Choke Banned Banned

    um, yes. Most people in western culture get involved in MA because they see MA related movies/TV shows.

    What a stupid generalization!

    We all know people get started in MA's to fend off ninja attacks!

    What century are you living in, pal? Because in this one, media/advertising is king. It's why we wear Nike's and eat Burger King. It's also why we do certain MA's. Is this hard to grasp for you? Let me spell it out further. *after Bruce Lee made it big, there was a HUGE influx of new "martial artists" all ready to spread the good news.* You Didn't thing Kung Fu get popular because of it's proven effectivness in fighting, did you? Frankly it had a whole lot more to do with a series called "Kung Fu, The legend continues"

    This is 100% proof that media effects Martial Arts interest. This is not debated by anyone with a clue.

    But dont let annoying facts get in the way of your reasoning.

    You can't respond to me because you have nothing of value to say, because I've pretty much shut down all your points. The only relevent attack you made was trying to claim I dont know chinese for "teacher", which I did or course. You were just attempting to be a jerk.

    Do you have anything of relevence to say? Or should I leave your intelligent points to speak for themselves? " :bang: "

    and yeah, we're all students here, dont be daft. Or are You some sort of "Master" like ManabiMashoMan? You'll notice several other posters on this thread said the same exact thing: "we are all students/beginners" You must have missed it :confused:

    Want another "sweeping generalization"?

    Ignorance (yours) is bliss.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2005
  17. Punch-Kik-Choke

    Punch-Kik-Choke Banned Banned

    Reading comprehension.

    He's being *sarcastic*
  18. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    Erm... so was I...? LOL :bang:

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