IMA anti grapple and anti lock

What sucked was the implication that what was in the vids is "not real martial arts". Your words were, and I quote, "No he is not cynical - just his eyes openend to what real Martial Arts look like. Nothing shown in the original clips is even close." I'd say you implied that what was in the video was not martial arts except, oh wait, YOU SAID IT WASN'T.

Lose the attuitude. It's pretty clear from that comment alone you don't know as much as you like to think about Internal Arts. Learn some bagua then come back when you actually know what you're talking about, Sonshu.

 

sonshu, PM sent ... please check it.

new clip here ... actually an old clip .. but from the same session.

http://www.ukbaguainstitute.com/baguagrapplingclip.mov

It will need some explaining i think just to keep things in context.

First movment, slapping the kidney from a shot. This left me injured for a few weeks and stopped my momentum in its tracks. Notice alex moving back with one leg and rooting. my mass stops against his structure.

second movment. Hip throw attempt. here alex uses his hips before mine are set for the throw and uses a strong push to throw me away. (doesnt look like much ... but perfect timing will do that)

third movement, based on one of the ba gua palm changes movement arond the opponent and then two wa power on the spine causing the take down.

Fourth movement, Here Alex demonstrates spiral force against straight line force. I am trying a conventional hip throw he is using spiralling of the spine and hips. from the continued rotation as i land in a heap you can see this is not a staged movement.

5th movement, rotating out of a specific lock ... this is not a lock i would use on someone bigger than me but was used to demonstrate the 'idea'

6th section. Ba gua ground work to keep multiple opponents at bay and strike the legs/knees

7th movement, Slipping an attack changing level and taking down.

8th movement, More spiral vrs straight instruction.

9th movement, two way power against the spine and crossing.

Now lets get this clear in everyones mind ..... this is STILL instructional material with some attacks there to AID INSTRUCTION.

Regards
Chris

 

Hey mods, see this?

 

Middleway, I really don't get how you can not see that my level of skill matters. This is a technique designed to be used against grapplers, so I want to see it being used against a skilled grappler. If you use it against me all you could prove would be that it works on me. Why are you so dead set against showing footage of this on camera anyway?

 

i just find it amusing that someone with no real level of skill in grappling is able to comment on what will work againsts grapplers????

It is a strage situation that we have on forums isnt it ....

Nothing personal mate ... at all ...

Regards
Chris

 

timmy ... i am not dead set against it ... i just dont have any as yet.

Like i said if i cover these idea's in my class at some point i will video it.

regards
Chris

 

So, the long and the short of it is, you really can't prove it. I think we're done here.

 

Either you're going to prove it on video or you're not. If you are, don't sit here trying to justify why you shouldn't have to.

 

timmy.

my my your sure opinionated for someone without grappling skill.

no the long and short of it is I HAVE OFFERED TO PROVE IT. and have said i will provide video when the time allows .. what is the problem with either of those

its easy sitting behind a computer isnt it ... coming face to face with what you disagree with is a scarier prospect isnt it ...

keep training ... maybe your mind more than anything else.

Chris

 

Once again, you accuse me of chickening out. Please refer to my earlier post to see why that's a ridiculous thing to say. You probably could beat me - so what?

I don't need to be really good myself to have an opinion on this. I like how you're singling me out in all of this when Ikken Hitatsu, Sonshu and Matt Bernius have also asked for film evidence of it working against a resisting opponent. I am allowed an opinion, middleway.

You put this video up asking for people's opinions, and I have given you mine. I haven't attacked you personally, or your skill, so how you can accuse me of being a keyboard warrior is beyond me. I've done nothing offensive here, so I can only presume from the way you're being so aggressive in defence of this that deep down you also have doubts about whether this would really work.

 

A good Internal MA’ists can generate power such that unless you have personal experience of it, you cannot comprehend its effect, with this point any scepticism is understandable. But, given the benefit of doubt that such power is possible, why is it difficult to understand that a powerful strike would deter or incapacitate an aggressor from further attack or movement, grappler or not

 

timmy

I think me and Sonshu will be meeting at some point. the other guys are in other countries.

of course your allowed an opinion. of course ... but if its not based on practical knowledge what relevance is it?

your right you have done nothing off offence and neither have i towards you.

I am mierly saying that if you insist on saying PROVE it .... and then when i say i will get some more footage in the future as i have none right now .... and say that i would show you personally your responce is .... 'that means you cant prove it'.

This is what is annoying. But its nothing personal i assure you. just a bit tiersome thats all.

happy training.

regards
Chris

 

Good. Sonshu is actually a good grappler so him meeting you will prove far more than meeting me ever would.

It's based on SOME practical knowledge. I'm able to outgrapple most of my mates, but at the same time I'm nothing compared to the other grapplers at my MMA class. I know enough to be able to form something of an informed opinion on this, because this slapping video reeks of one of the surefire solutions that I threw out of the window when I started judo. I've actually done far more TMA than what I do now.

You have repeatedly called me a keyboard warrior for not wanting to meet you.

This is because one minute you're going to get footage, the next minute you're trying to justify why you shouldn't have to.

 

post a quote cause i dont know think i have said this anywhere in this thread.

its ok .. i think we understand each other now yeh?

cheers
Chris

 

You said yourself that meeting me and showing me it would prove more than the video.

Just about

 

Thanks for the vids I like them alot.

 

Dont you get ****ed of as being used as a punch bag, especialy as this was to aid instruction and as you had no real intention of hurting Alex, yet you seem to accept that it is oK for him to mess you up for a few weeks ?

I does not seem to fair to me, i can accept injuries from sparring, but not when demoing a technique like this. i think its cruel and sadistic

 

no, no ... not really ... maybe that 'injured for a few weeks' could be taken out of context, i wasnt laid up in bed unable to move ... i mean it was painful for a couple of weeks.

I told alex the level of pain and discomfort i was willing to accept when we started this film, he had reservations, but i insisted.

It is my view that in order to feel a techniques power you have to feel it .... Alex is very good at giving the student what they can handle. He knows me well and so it wasnt an act that would normally happen per say.

Alex was holding back ALOT in these video's. and was fully aware that no perminant damage would be done, if he does injure you during training he heals you afterwards.

Pain is something you accept and learn to deal with in hard training.

kind regards
Chris

 

Got to love a good heated debate.

Because I really cant stop myself, I think its time for me to chime in a wee bit more.

From what I can see on the tapes, not much skill was really put into executing a grapple. Sure you went through the movements, but it was obvious that you knew that you would stop.

I reminds me of TKD 1 step sparing. Orchestrated moves, that really dont show how effective something is. If fights were only one move, all thrown and half speed and then your opponent allows you to bend his arm and kick him.

What would really impress me would be for you to fight him full contact, no pre organising, just a bit of the old fashioned toe to toe fighting. See how well he can slap you off when you are really trying to lob him on his ass.

Thats the only real way to showcase a technique. I know you are trying to remove it from the fight so we can all see it, but it still doesnt look to good when you are advertising it as an anti grappling move, when we saw no grappling at all.

 

thanks for the comments.

Do you think this is a good way to teach students of detail? As this is the context of the clips.

You wont find too much out and out toe to toe fighting on many instructional films teaching detail regardless of style.

Regards
Chris