May I say that with a lot of people leave their orgs/instructors to open a new/their own one, are going to create waves, good and bad. remember everyone has their own free will to do what they want, and there's ALWAYS 2 sides to the story, postive and negitive from both sides. If you only know one side of the story then don't be quick to judge as that person/s story might be missing a few facts
hey, thanks yes i found a new school, and still the same organation, as i moved house, i moved to the scool closer to home, and luckly i could carry on with it and the same style..and i still have as much passion for it ! i live for taekwondo
i'm glad that the op has the wherewithal to quit the dojang he was at. clearly not happy, plus the fees are ridiculous. $3000/year? that's outrageous and criminal. but i think some good points were raised by other posters... black belt really doesn't mean anything. oh, it's nice to get a reward for all your hard work. but really all it means is that you managed to pass at least one, probably several arbitrary tests that in the real world...mean nothing. no mugger is going to ask you what grade you are in martial arts before deciding to attack you. the concept of belts wasn't even introduced until jigoro kano. it's really all about the training, your instructor, and the other people in the gym or dojang or dojo or whatever you call it. obviously, the op had enough and chose the right course. hope to hear how the new art/gym works out...
well it was a shame they left because the instructor i had was amazing i loved his lesson's and he really got me into tkd, i was like up there 6days a week, teaching and traning everyday and he was great the kid's loved him and the other instructor who left was also good, i dint train with her many times, but she was brilliant at tkd, and she was a good instructor, and the few times i trainded with her, she was really cool to train with. but they chose to open there own school in the own organation then fair to them, they didnt fill that this organation had what they wanted, or didnt like the way thing's were, i dont no i dont no the complete story on both side's so i cant argue for ethire but at the end of the day it's up to them if they decied to open there own school else where, and hopefully there school's are sucsefful which i belive from all there school's so far are great it was a shame they left, and espically as one was my old instructor, who was my favourite instructor and the other instructor..she was pretty cool to, but good luck to them in there school's and i hope they go well.....ii just don't get it when people leave and this massive fuss kicks up like a war just about to break out i think its pointless, it like if you shop at tesco, you cant speak to anyone or get along with anyone who shops at asda...its excauttly the same prinscable.
Ahah well nai i think i found you, http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10623673&posted=1#post10623673 go on that and its the TKD check in page, introduce your self, name age rank school organation ext x
well still put cowplain down,just like rite, name age how long u been doing tkd, what rank you are who u train under and rite ITA to and also join this...http://itatigerforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=uk&action=display&thread=403 x
Firstly, I'd be really interested to hear anyone's views on Charlotte Waters - please PM me with comments. Secondly, people seem to put far too much emphasis on belt and belts here. Really, belt, organisation, even art are of little or no consequence - they have no standing on how god a martial artist you are. Really, even how good a fighter you are is of little relevance. What does make you a good martial artist is very complicated and open to a great deal of conjecture. You get good instructors in bad organisations and bad instructors in good organisations. An instructor student relationship is also a two way thing. How that relationship works depends largely on shared opinions and mutual goals. I suppose the problems is when a student starts with no MA training, they should start with little or no opinions and a limited set of goals - in that situation, it's up to a good instructor to guide a student towards sensible goals, realistic expecations and to have sensible opinions. As people grow into an art and they learn more about it, I think they become more able to assess it and think independantly about the quality of the organisation, instructor and art. If a club/art/organisation has no senior grades but has been around for years - then it's probably not great. Grade generally = length of time trained. In my case it's more complicated because I've decided not to grade again at this time. Mainly because I can't get to training regularly enough to say with integrity that I feel entitled to grade. Yet I've been training for so long if I'd never stopped and always graded I'd be 5th Dan now - it doesn't make me a bad martial artist. Being a 2nd Dan doesn't make me better than a 4th Kup or worse than a 6th Dan. I suppose in some ways your rank is a statement of how well your beliefs and the way you perform techniques fits in with the organisations idea of what is correct and right. This way when you get to 9th Dan and are able to steer the beliefs of the organisation as to what is the best way to go about doing martial arts you come from a position of sharing the beliefs of the organisation. Don't feel bad - if you are on the martial arts path, and you left TKD for Muay Thai - it really doesn't matter. You should be pleased with yourself that you have become mature enough to critically assess your art, instructor and organisation and felt it was wrong for you - and been bold enough to change. Many people aren't and they stay in an art/organisation for years , criticizing it, but stay out of mis-placed loyalty or fear of losing their grade. *Edit I have found Miss Walters Club at TKD Hawks I don't think it paints a good picture for me. Training from 3 years old? That's going to be baby-sitting. I have a 2 and a half year old - teaching her to fight is the last thing on my mind! Not grading for Masters Degrees ? And calling a 5th Dan Master? They do a demonstration at gradings instead? No disrespect to anyone who trains there - I would love to see some video's of their techniques... They do weapons too No, I think I can probably understand why you chose to leave.
Before u mock someones system learn what it involves, where does it say 3 yr olds learn to fight. and i believe that 4th dan is classed as master in wtf unless im mistaken. students can still fail to get to 5th dan as it not just dowe to time served the individual has to to prove their worth over their time in training and their input to the org and art etc.
I didn't mock the system at all - I just expressed an opinion that I probably wouldn't enjoy training there. That the advertisement for what the organisation is about doesn't fit in with my martial arts ethos. 3 year olds training :- see link here There's nothing wrong with calling yourself a master at 5th Dan, or 4th Dan, you can change your name by deed poll today to Master - then everyone will have to call you Master. I think calling 5th Dans masters contributes to an overall feel to the organisation which I wouldn't be comfortable with and I imagine like-minded taekwondoists wouldn't be comfortable with either. I apologise for the slightly derogatory tone of my previous post - when I read it back it does sound like harsher criticism than intended. I do like organisations which have a physical grading for higher Dans. I can imagine coming up with a demonstration for your gradings to be quite good fun - and enjoyable, but it feels a little - how can I put it? Like self-back patting to me, to each their own. I'm sure any of my various organisations I've belonged to are open to criticism, I wouldn't rebuke somebody for criticising them unless they stated something which was categorically untrue. The fact is TAGB had it's flaws and still does I gather - but they are very popular and if I moved to an area where there was no PUMA but wanted to train TAGB would certainly be first port of call. PUMA do things I don't like, I don't mind the fitness testing at grading time, I don't like the way it's labelled a 'spirit test' and the spirit in which it is done. I don't like the showy presentation evenings for black belts - many do... I don't like the 'Little Pumas' Kiddy club for 4 year olds +, they don't train as such, I don't really know enough about it to comment on what they do - but my daughter won't be going or doing anything MA orientated for many, many years... If you think your organisation is perfect and beyond criticism, then you probably have some ownership of it or are a little deluded. I'm not being cynical, just realistic. Why don't you tell us about the positive aspects of the organisation and the good things it offers which aren't available in bigger organisations like the TAGB, PUMA, GTUK or Trevor Nicholls TKD? My issue with 5th dans is NOT people failing it, it's people who leave shortly after getting 1st Dan or before getting 1st Dan, not due to failing, but to simply deciding not to train any more!
As you said maybe it was the way ur previous post came across! every system/MA has is good and bad. and not sayin that is above any other org or offers things other dont. Mayb i bit as charlotte is a very good friend of mine and she has had ppl digging at her for all the wrong reasons since we left our previous org. Everyone has their own views on MA/TKD and everyones entitled to their opinion. Not getting the connection with 5th dan and 1st dan ting tho????
I've just been trailing through your old posts and you talk a lot sense. I think we're actually surprisingly like-minded. I wonder if maybe the website paints a different picture to the reality? It's tough going break away, I mean how do you grade if you are the highest grade in your organisation? I can understand why people do it - If I'd dedicated more of my life to TKD I would probably want to start an organisation - because I don't think there is an organisation which fully reflects my views on martial arts. On the 5th Dan thing - I don't see 5th Dan as Master title territory personally. I think a physical grading would give more integrity to any 5th Dan - or higher grade. Having said that I don't see a great deal of relevance in gradings, my personal view is that gradings are there to test whether you are training and teaching within the aims and beliefs of the organisation and nothing more. So really if you break away you might as well just award yourself the grades or join the ITF and just take their international gradings which are only available to higher Dans - can't remember which. But then do you share the beliefs with the ITF on how things should be done? If you don't grading with them is a waste of time and shows no integrity. Complicated... So Miss Waters was UKTA before? Where did the weapons expertise come from? I thought UKTA was pure TKD?
The website is edited between the 3 main instructors. one of its functions is the advertisement, which is actually the main source for new students other than word of mouth. We are part of CMAA (cobra martial arts association) so in miss waters' case she will grade in front of their panel when she has had the time spent etc. We were orginally from the ITA (international tkd alliance) and the other main instructor has trained in ITF up to 2nd degree and also has trained in other MAs (see instructors page on website). the main weapons experience comes from him. the problem with leaving a big org is not having the backin of it ie we say who we are and most will ask if its itf, wtf, etc. so that is a down side but it has worked well for us so far to stay independant.
Hmmm, interesting, Charlotte has contacted me, and you've answered some questions I asked her, for her. Is Cobra a TKD organisation? Who will be on the panel that decides how to grade a 5th Dan in TKD? Forgive my ignorance I've never heard of Cobra. I'm getting the impression that quite possibly the website gives me an unfairly negative impression. Maybe it's more geared towards attracting non-MA starters and it may be successful from this point of view.
i would say google cobra martial arts association for details on them. most of our new students are complete beginners but some do come across from other org and MAs. as this is a forum to exchange ideas etc what would u say would be an idea to make some alterations to the website?
Googled them... Seems like an umbrella organisation, with no specialism in Taekwondo. I like the idea of them providing Instructor training and accreditation. My only real beef is as an independant smaller TKD organisation, Miss Walters appears to have no TKD seniors to grade her. Granted this isn't really a major issue - I mean when I was in the TAGB the most senior were 5th Dan so they said at the time you only graded up to 5th and that was that. A means to an end. I presume the TKD itself resembles ITF style and does the Chang Hon Patterns? Would it not be sensible to join the ITF and have the capacity to do international ITF Gradings? Or join another large TKD association, just for the time being until such time as Hawks had a 7th Dan, when it's very clearly a service to the art rather a physical grading - across the board? I wonder about inter-organisation competition, I raised this with Charlotte but she hasn't responded yet. I'm not trying to be critical, I can imagine there are some challenging aspects to being independant of a big TKD organisation - the freedom would be great, but at the same time I can imagine certain things are made more difficult. I'm not really a web design or marketting expert, so I don't think it would be fair to comment on how to improve the website. It's far more professional than anything I could throw together. I'm probably not the target demographic either so my opinion on the content may not be something you would want to take as gospel either. I suppose this page implies that Charlotte is considered a MASTER at 5th Dan, now I'm wondering whether actually the web site is trying to say she's in charge of the club/organisation and it just reads funny. It's like Dojangs that call their head instructor "Grand Dragon Master 23rd Dan etc etc..." I might change that to chief instructor or something... I'm probably only being pedantic or something - other people might have read it that way first time, it just looked like she was calling herself 5th Dan Master when generally in TKD we only call a 7th Dan Master - or so I thought, I could be wrong? I think a bit explaining where the weapons training comes from would only add credibility and be a good thing. I am always suspicious of schools offering weapons when the main art is known non-weapon art. Maybe a section on what the pre-junior groups actually do with some emphasis on it not being martial arts training as per se, would be good? Only my humble opinions, there's probably a hundred people on here who think I'm an opinionated idiot and that you should leave it exactly as it is. Can I ask you what sort of numbers and ages train at the various clubs? I'm interested in the kind of demographic the site attracts. I'm going to Singapore tomorrow so I won't be around for a while, but in any case, all the best with your training and wish Miss Walters all the best with her club/organisation I'm my first impression was hastily formed and that it's a fine place to train.
