I'm out.....

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Incredible Bulk, Aug 31, 2006.

  1. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    I also have no problem with junior blackbelts.

    That being said there are a couple of things that should be true.

    First off we don't allow kids to start testing until they are around 7. They can be part of a small kids class before that, but they don't learn forms and such at that point. Add four to five years on to 7 and you get 11 to 12 year old black belts, and not six year old black belts. So it isn't a matter of keeping a kid interested for 9 or 10 more years but 4 years before they can retest for their non-junior blackbelt (usually breaking).

    We also don't let kids test for higher ranks until they graduate from high school. This is actually more in the kid's interest rather than 'trying to hold some standard'. With us the rule is 2 years to your second degree black belt, 3 additional years to your third, 4 additional years to your fourth, etc, etc.

    It is understood in the organization that by 4th or 5th degree you are supposed to compete less and focus on your students more.

    So if you have a kid that gets his 1st dan at 12, 2nd dan at 14, 3rd dan at 17, 4th dan at 20, and 5th dan at 25 he is in his prime and supposed to compete less? Better to just hold them until they graduate and give them lots of competing years...
     
  2. Azeotrope

    Azeotrope Valued Member

    I stand corrected (and unhappy). We (ITA) don't have junior BB's, that kid will be eligible to test without hitting an age restriction through 2nd Dan I believe.

    I don't like that, but I do like my dojang. If I were at your school and I wasn't being taught by instructors I respected, I would quit too.

    Good luck finding a good teacher. I wouldn't worry about how well outfitted the school is, just how high their expectations are.
     
  3. wynnema

    wynnema Valued Member

    what by making sweeping generalisations. Believe it or not some schools are not belt factories.
     
  4. Mixitup

    Mixitup Banned Banned

    I wish I could find one. I do agree I was making a generalisation about the M/A/sport as a whole, but if 75% of practitionors can get a B/B by doing reasonably well and attending twice a week for four years, don't you think it devalues your B/B?
     
  5. ClumsyFoot

    ClumsyFoot ITA - Intnl. TKD Alliance

    Hmmm...

    TKDG, I hope you find an instructor that suits you. Also, don't rule out all ITA because of your experience in GB. I gather that the vast majority of ITA schools are in the States. I'd be interested in your feedback after visiting one of these schools. As Azeo and others have said, so much depends on the instructor.

    I would not train again under the same instructor that I had 15 years ago (or so) in a different organization, because of the poor quality of his instruction. However, I've been very pleased with the different instructors that I've had in the ITA. Each have their own strengths and blind spots, but on the whole very good indeed.

    I like Azeo's instructor using a pre-test method to ensure tight standards.

    Something about that article did bother me. Maybe 2 years at ages 4 to 6 to achieve BB. Hmmmm.... Now, what on earth could be troubling me so? Hmmmm.... :rolleyes:
     
  6. Incredible Bulk

    Incredible Bulk Eat-Lift-Eat-Sleep-Grow

    yes, he will still have that grade right into adulthood.
    we have a few kids who have done that and they are crap once they reach the adult classes.

    i respect the master Brian Mitchelmore as he brought the ITA to the UK but his choices over his instructors is poor IMO. The senior instructor does nothing but bitch and back stab her students behind their backs and it has created a bad atmosphere....members have quit and mostly black belts.

    this is no pre-testing as Brian would not get as many testing fee's at £45 ($85?) a pop.
    black belts is £55 ($105?), 3rd degress and above is £150 ($290?)

    this includes kids for grading... ;)

    ITA in the UK is a joke, i know its fairly big in the US and its a shame...
     
  7. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    It doesn't devalue anything.

    You know that you can get your university degree by sticking it out for four years and doing 'reasonably well'.

    The black belt is NOT the end all be all. It is a goal you set. When you get it you 'blend in' with all the higher dan ranks. But the real benefit is in THE TRAINING. The day to day working out. The camaradarie. All that jazz.

    I've been doing martial arts for 20+ years and I know guys who are now in their 60s and still doing it. They have had wear and tear on the body. Sometimes their knees aren't up to par as in the old days. Yet they are still higher ranks than they were in their 20s. Doesn't that devalue the higher dan ranks? The whole aging process? Maybe we should do something about that. If people didn't age the higher ranking blackbelt would have more value, don't you think?

    We live in the REAL world. Not some Mortal Kombat movie.

    Personally I like working out with all ages and such. I like that I still exchange kicks with guys who I've been sweating with for over a decade. I like seeing the kids grow up and 'come into their own' when they are the young bucks who are pushing the pace and I am the old dog who is trying to keep up.
     
  8. Mixitup

    Mixitup Banned Banned

    Sorry I disagree, the largest TKD orginization in the UK has lowered the bar on all gradings, including the B/B, that you don't have to be athletic, fit or even be able to spar. TKD needs to become a lot tougher and not pander to the general population if it's ever going to get credibility amongst other M/A's.
     
  9. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    Credibilty among other M/A's? What are you talking about? When I was in university I had guys from all sorts of styles come and work out in my class. Many of them exchange students from other countries (styles like: Shotokan, Kenpo, various kung fu styles, Goju Ryu, etc). Not one of them was disrespectful of the style of TKD OR the content of the class. They loved the workout and we had some fun and great sparring sessions. I miss those days. I remember saying goodbye to some of those guys when they were done with their exchange program and it was TOUGH to lose such great training partners.

    In fact the only people who used to disrespect the class were other TKDist who did the WTF style rather than the ITF style.

    From my personal experience there is plenty of respect for TKD.

    Now I did do kickboxing later and plenty of those guys disrespected ALL TMAs. But most of them, from what I saw, could have really USED a couple years training in a TMA style. They really needed to develop flexibility, timing, etc. In fact the ones who were dangerous as heck to spar were the ones who HAD a TMA background and were transitioning into kickboxing (again my personal experience).

    Now if you are talking about getting respect from other martial artists on an internet forum then I have to say you're fighting a losing battle anyway. But that is the internet for you. Common manners go out the window.
     
  10. CraigM

    CraigM Valued Member

    TKD Guy come back to judo mate. You wont find a black belt that didn't earn the thing with blood ,sweat and tears on the mat.As i remember you only did Judo as a junior. As a senior its a lot different mate. Armlocks and nasty strangles. Tough randori. My son goes to ITA and it does scream McDojo. Then again he's only 4 and goes to just get rid of his energy. When he's 5 he'l do Judo.
     
  11. Hutchey

    Hutchey Valued Member


    Hello (me again) Sorry can't help reading about your former club - seeing as you are confirming what I have already thought. Even though you have insulted two of our black belts (actually I think I know who you mean and one isn't training anymore) You shouldn't dismiss the TAGB based on two people you have met outside of the organisation. We train twice a week and I don't understand the rush - I took over 10 years to get my black belt but at least I am confident in knowing my art. I have been very surprised by how quickly people move up through the ranks in ITA Ports and has made me wonder how an individual can possibly perform the techniques correctly and have correct understanding of them.
     
  12. Hutchey

    Hutchey Valued Member


    Erm? Who is providing you with this information? I am the main instructor, and the club has doubled since I took it over -My instructor, who is about to grade as a 5th Dan,comes up once a month- not what I'd say a club trying to find its feet so get your facts right before slandering a club you know nothing abouth on a public forum. Also to quote TKDALLY the TAGB do not accept grades from ITA as they are not BTC recognised. I have had lengthy discussions with Master Dew about the matter before I get any recourse on this so sadly yes you have wasted your time and money in ITA - a fact which Andy and Matt may have already tried to convey?
     
  13. Incredible Bulk

    Incredible Bulk Eat-Lift-Eat-Sleep-Grow

    oh yeah matt and andy ripped it out of me, they had good reason too which came clearer as things went on.

    i apologise if i've offended you, i was led to believe it was a stage of transition when i saw your club. i'll edit my comments in all my posts...

    I'll explain myself though:

    i saw the club a good 3 years ago, there were only 5 people in the class... it was on a rock hard school floor with no mats. The teacher had a few kick paddles but that was it as far as equipment.

    my comment with regard to the set up was that when i went to the ITA, it was a permenant setting with matts, bags and mirrors etc. when i said that i then joined the Mc dojo, i meant the ITA.

    Andy told me that the club was looking for members and that i should start out again at the TAGB as it was changing from when i last saw it but i knew that the amount of bad habits i was probablly taught plus more would be a pain to correct.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2006
  14. Tansy

    Tansy I train ninja guinea pigs

    ooo do tell.

    Mine is borring.

    Tans
     
  15. Tansy

    Tansy I train ninja guinea pigs

    As for quitting...well done!

    I hate this commercial "becomme a black belt and show off" type attitude, you want to really fight go and pick a fight at a local bar and then learn to box.

    I picked up a leaflet teh other day from a gym advertsing Karate (which form of it I don't know) it pictured a young male with two chairs supporting his legs split apart showing his flexibility. I opened the leaflet read on to find him saying that Karate helps you defend yourself and family, gets you fit and mentaly confident. Then it went on to say it charged £5 an hour, £15 insurence and £20 membership or a block lessons (how many it didn't say).

    I was dubious as £5 an hour is a bit much and you don't learn too much in an hour. I beilive it could have been a McDojo...not sure I could be judgemental...I have been to clasess like this before.

    Tans
     
  16. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Not to be critical, but surely this would be better done the other way round? ;) :D

    Mitch
     
  17. Hutchey

    Hutchey Valued Member


    lol or learn quick!!!
     
  18. Tansy

    Tansy I train ninja guinea pigs


    You would learn either way, although of course training is required in boxing and I am certain you wouldn't get hit too much, where as you can't train in a bar with...drunk people...and glasess? maybe a new ma should be set up just for bars and pubs...call it Baritsu...no actually that sounds like a trendy club.

    Tans
     
  19. Gould

    Gould Valued Member

    Portsmouth was my old club until about 2 years ago before I moved areas. It was a small club probably of about 10 students but we had some good members and I'm more than happy with the instruction i received!!.

    It just goes to show that you can gloss up a Dojang as much as possible but if the quality of tuition is sub standard then it will show sooner or later.
     
  20. Hutchey

    Hutchey Valued Member


    Craig?
     

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