Ideas for SD demo for abused women

Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by Remi Lessore, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Ok, so you're going to risk doing further damage to a group of vulnerable women in the hope that the shelter whose job it is to care for them and prevent them from coming to harm will give you a contract for a 10 week course?

    You see the problem, right?

    Start at week 1. If your syllabus is good, they'll give you a week 2, especially if you explain to them that you are doing it out of concern for their charges' mental well being.
  2. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Ah...fond memories of my days helping out at the local WI meetings.

    Kept me on my toes!
  3. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Remi: Have you any real fight experience?
  4. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Colour codes of what? Telecom cables?

    Joking...but why try to break things down into fake categories? Maybe I'm missing something. SD is NOT my thing.
  5. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member


    Is it the colour or the state of alertness that is important?
    I am well aware of danger and how to avoid it. And I do, and I teach others to as well. - successfully, since in all the years I have been at it only one of my students has been hit and hurt, as far as I know, and I have not at all in seven years in the police.

    I can cover walking in the street, turning round every few paces, using shop window reflections, and other anti-surveillance, etc. (though not in a first lesson.) These women will know that when they see this person and he has not seen them, they need to leave. If he sees them and approaches, the alert is red.
    It is the type of technique that I am mainly interested in exploring here, or scenarios that some of you may have used or think I should avoid.
    I will not start talking about colours to ex-prostitutes or battered wives, or they will think I am flippant.

    Colour coding is something I had come across relative to bi-polar disorder (not mine). This is not very different in principle and worth exploring for teaching purposes, though you seem to already know about it.
  6. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Well that goes without saying, you're in the Buj. :D

    It's a conceptual model and method of drilling that's all, eventually through practice you end up naturally going up and down through the levels, basically helps with OODA.
  7. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member


    I have far more experience at avoiding fights.
  8. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Remi, I've got to call it like I see it.

    I think this approach creates nervous people and isn't good self defence.

    Turning round every few paces and checking reflections is just going to make you look nervous, which in turn will turn you into a victim.

    I think you need to leave this gig alone until you have had a meeting with the centre.
  9. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    I resemble that remark!
  10. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member


    It depends how you do it.
    Again, this was never going to be for the intro. which was what this thread was supposed to be about.
    We are not talking about generic victims for generic thugs, but particular victims for one thug they are avoiding or his mates.
  11. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    Good night all.
    See you in a week.
  12. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    If they think you are being flippant, then it is due to a deficiency in your teaching skills. Cooper's codes are taught by militaries and law enforcement organisations across the globe for decades. It is pretty much the opposite of flippant material.

    You seem more interested in getting the gig than in doing the job right.
  13. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I'll preface this by pointing out I know nothing about the proper psychology behind dealing with abused people

    Anyway, I agree with you but on the other hand mightn't that be a better start? From what I understand target hardening is largely about at least faking an air of confidence in yourself and to others. I could see these ladies struggling with that. I assume this course has more to do with esteem building that a standard course's focus on street SD.

    With that in mind, starting with something like Remi's plan might be easier,no? You say its more of a victim tactic and I agree but, and I don't mean this harshly, that might be an easier approach for these women at the start. You obviously want the end result to be proper hardening and normal awareness but I see possible merit in given them Remi's plan and teaching it with an air of taking control of their situation and their surroundings and then from there building to eventual normal hardening.

    I know I personally didn't have the esteem when I first heard about hardening to put it into practice and I was just shy and self conscious. I can't imagine what problems an abuse victim might have. I could be underestimating them however but that's what I was thinking about your post.
  14. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    starting points

  15. GenghisK

    GenghisK Jiu Jitsu Kempoka

    I'd take something like this on if asked, but I really do think I'd ask for enough time to prepare it right, and to have the right people there to help me.

    I had a similar instance recently where I was asked (in a non-martial arts context) to deliver some training in a way that would have been fairly lucrative, but I was very unhappy about. Basically it was my professional opinion that the training would have minimal value, because of the way they wanted it delivering.

    So, after bouncing this off a few people whose judgement I trust, I went back to them and said no - not their way, but I would do it my way.

    They thought about it for a week, came back for an argument, thought about it for another week, then said yes. I really do think that this approach gets you marked as the expert you want to be seen as.

    "Do it right, or not at all", is not a bad maxim to live by.

    On a more technical level, I think I'd take my favourite uke along, and demonstrate defences against him (he's half again my size, so it looks good) but have the ladies, who presumably have some reasonable level of knowledge and trust of each other, work together. I'd major on protecting yourself against blows, and releasing yourself from grabs, with a bit of a chat about awareness and keeping yourself out of harms way - that's an hour easily. Trying to cram to much into a session is always a mistake. Strikes as anything but distractions in this sort of environment are just daft, of any sort.

    Last edited: Jul 5, 2014
  16. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    starting points

    Military and police, OK. They are used to codes and schemes. Crying, swollen, terrified people, no.
    People hiding, possibly, but not at the first meeting.

    Please don't judge me as being mercenary. We don't know each other.
    I would rather lose or give the job to someone else than do it badly. Hence laying myself open by asking for advice here.
    It is all under consideration.

    Simon, I will speak to the centre before anything is firm.
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Can they relate to traffic lights?

    Color codes are the same thing

    If you ignore it you are overlooking the biggest aspect of Self Protection

    I've been teaching privately and individuals on a professional and semi professional basis for a long time now and color coding is one of the backbones
  18. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    People can be so quick to tell him to just give up on teaching this class.

    Have those of you who keep telling Remi to not do this class considered the alternative? He doesn't teach this class and this women's center goes elswhere for their self defense class. I doubt they will just give up on the idea entirely just because he did.

    He seems to be taking this seriously and wants to do a good job. He says he has some experience understanding the psychology of battered women. He says he has been teaching awhile. He used to be a police officer. And he is on here asking for and listening to advice from those who have more experience in the subject.

    So, if this womens cetner gets turned down from him and goes elswhere, what are the odds that those women will receive a course from someone with less experience and not seeking feedback the way he is?
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2014
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    People are not saying don't do it I am saying do it properly - big difference

    As he asked for advice I can't see the issue
  20. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    hey Hannibal, I wasn't referring to your posts. Some people are saying do it properly. 1 or 2 are basically saying don't do it.

Share This Page