Idealist/Realist or Capitalist?

The debate on what a Black Belt means looks set to continue on for a while yet, meantime I have another bee in my bonnet!

We mostly all start training because we have been impressed by someone, respect someone, want to emulate someone etc.

Following that train of thought, is it logical to assume that; if our sensei, sifu, guru etc is in it purely for the money, then we will eventually become like them ( i.e. choose the dark side )?

If someone can find me a safe hall which costs nothing to use, students who are unlikely to sue me if they trip and break a pinky, and a like minded association which will support that ideal, then I will teach for nothing.

First of all you start doing something you really love. Then pressure is applied on you to make money, and before you know where you are, you are only doing it for the money, and no longer love it. Worse than that, some people become so focussed on the money that they become politically active. You ony have to look at the number of spin-off styles and organisations. If you have ever seen the film 'The Life of Brian' it's a bit like the scene where they all sit around, confused over which organisation they belong to, 'The Judean Peoples Front', 'The Peoples Front of Judea', or 'The popular Front of Judea'.

If you have no idea what I am talking about, then I apologise, as you are obviously in a good club/organisation and should stay there.

Too many people stop Training in Martial Arts for the wrong reasons.

In some cases there are people whose sole qualification to Black Belt, is an ability in the field of Politics......!

Phew.......glad I got that off my chest!

 

Well Andy how do you reply to this one, you have raised some interesting points.

Firstly I'd like to say I started martial arts as did many thousands of students because of one man 'the late great Bruce Lee.'

On the subject of money I am led to believe 'correct me if I am wrong' that Bruce Lee would charge ridiculous amounts of money for personal training about $250.00 per hour. Yet at the same time he gave up teaching because he felt his students instead of learning for themselves were taking everything he said to literally, and that was not what his style was about. So I guess what I am trying to say is there are a lot of people making a lot of money out there from there art but they still have a love for what they teach.

Politics on the other hand is a different matter, I feel once politics hits your club you are on a downward slop to failure. I myself gave up teaching due to politics and many of my friends gave up for the same reasons. When politics steps in you loose your love for what you are doing and once that happens you might as well stop teaching because your students notice the change.

I have not taught now for the last 4 years even though I have about 18 years experience in the martial arts. This is mainly due to the fact I don't feel good enough to go it alone without an organisation behind me.

Anyway I don't know if I staid on track with what Andy was talking about if not sorry Andy and if no one has any idea what I am going on about then I to apologise.

Cooler

 

First of all to a question to all of us that have thought about teaching, WOW

To Cooler, I’m sure we could find an Org to back you that’s politic free if you started teaching again.

Andy Murray:
I completely understand what you are going through. Right now I am teaching and making no money at all. Everything I make is put into the building for rent. It doesn’t bother me all that much. I’m doing something that I love while watching a group of student grow within the martial arts in front of my eyes. That’s most of my payment. I’m not in this to get rich. I would like to just be able to make a living at it. If I find a better job doing something else, I wouldn’t mind teaching for free. Cause its in my heart. Now about leaving the instructor who is on (the dark side) I wouldn’t go that far. As long as you learn all that you can and keep a straight mind, that’s all that maters.

 

I have seen quite a few instructors, some people I trained with, go bad because of the almighty dollar. I have learned that you get pretty poor instruction from this type. Luckily the instructor In train Hapkido under doesn't fall into this category although he constantly worries he will with rent and everything for the school. Although not exclusive to the arts, I think it has gotten worse than most other places because it can be such a good get rich quick scheme, especially with TKD becoming a medal sport in the Olympics.... Sad to see but all too true. Add to that the problem alot of schools face with parents of students screaming "I pay you $$$ a month, why didn't my child get their belt" and you run into real problems. Just my opinion.

Rob

 

Not all TKD school are like that. WTF TKD is an Olympic sport NOT ITF TKD. We are a traditional Martial Arts.

 

Chazz,
I think I unintentionally implied that all were that way, my mistake. There are many good TKD instructors out there, it was just an easy example of the issue since alot of the instructors I know (and one I trained under) ended up that way because they started making alot of money. My appologies for miswording that.

Rob

 

No worries brother,
I have just been trying to tell people that there is a differencs in Tae Kwon Do. Eventhough we are brother and sisters and the martial arts and Tae Kwon Do as well, There are WTF as well as ITF Tae Kwon Do.

take Care
Chazz

 

I've no problem with people who want to earn a living out of teaching martial arts so long as their straight and up front about the service that they are suppling. I started training in a very serious and hard school where the instructor would travel about 30/40 miles to teach us and all he wanted was for whoever turned up to train to split the rental of the hall. I'm maybe off the point here but what I'm trying to say is that we must remember why we started training and why we love the martial arts. If ever they become boring or tedious (like 'oh no, I've got to teach a class of beginners, oh f*£$!) then we've lost our way.

 

I don't think earning a living teaching is wrong.... I just hate seeing an instructor that is more concerned about the money than the quality of instruction. I think an instructor should be compensated for the teaching they give, if it is good instruction, because what they are giving you can not possibly have a price put on it. But as well as the money, you get the politics that are just as bad.

Rob

 

True that Rob,

You just said my complete thoughts. I think that once politics enters the Dojon, that everything goes out the window. Instead of thinking about your students and their education in the martial arts you start thinking of how your going tp keep the people "watching" you happy and what you can do to stay on their "good side." One politics enters, i believe that starts the end of a school.

-Chazz

 

Definitely, I think that the only hands that should be involved in the teaching are those of the head instructor.... That is the problem I have seen with alot of organizations, they want to tell people how to teach, and what to do in class..... The problem with that is they aren't there themselves to see if it works in one particular school. Then the instructor cares more about impressing them and much less about whether the students are getting anything out of it.

Rob

 

AMEN BROTHER ROB

Instructors and the same as thier students. One that instructor know how to teach so that all of his/her students are able to learn. Not all students can be taught the same. Telling someone HOW TO TEACH is like saying "Do it MY my and NO other, if they dont understand its not your fault" NOT IN MY SCHOOL. I teach my class the way i think i should. Our classes are Mixed, little kids with adults. So i have to be able to teach to where the little kids understand and the adults are not bored. Its a lot of work but i do it. Im just glad that my ORG lest me do this and makes sure politics says out of our dojon

-Chazz

 

That's a huge point in their favor..... I am a big fan of any non poltical org. That's half the reason I don't teach, the politics are too much for me, (the other half being that I am still too busy learning lol).
Mixed classes are hard... You're doing really well making that work.

Rob

 

I give all Instructors credit *bows to you* I thougth that just keeping up with my martial arts work outs was hard enough, but to have to teach then find time to study martial arts as well... that takes a lot out of you. Ive only been teaching for a short while now and i have to give props to the Instructors who have been teaching from many years. GOOD JOB TEACHERS!!!!!
-Chazz

 

Hey I dissapear for a week and you guys debate without me.

As some of you have mentioned, i started my own training because I was personally inspired. My instructor was doing 500 mile round trips, twice a week to spread his system to my area. he was inspirational, and, as a young guy, I would confess to a little hero worship. I would have walked on fire for this guy. His organisation applied pressure on him to make money. He needed money to continue inspiring more people. At times the spark that ignited his students was extinguished by pressures completely unrelated to what he was good at.

Now that I find myself in the role of 'spark', and I talk to the combustible, I find that life has turned full circle. as a child grows to adult hood, only to become a parent, so the student becomes Sifu. When you are the student you aspire to be the Sifu and when you are the Sifu , you aspire to be the student.

As a child we say to our fathers; 'when I am a Dad, I won't treat my children like that'. When, and only when, you are a father you find out why he did what he did.

If you want to teach Martial Arts, you must learn from the mistakes made by your Instructors.........Not repeat them!!!

 

lol Andy, see what happens when ya vanish, ya miss all the good stuff.

Personally I started as a way to regulate my behavior... It was just something to tire me out so I would sleep, then later to give me discipline I lacked in everything else. I stuck with it because it became part of me, now I wouldn't give up training for anyone. I'm not sure I will ever take the role of teaching..... I don't feel I am ready mentally now and I am too busy learning. But I totally agree with learning from the mistakes made by your own instructors and not repeating them. But as with anything else in life many times those mistakes become a never ending circle.

Rob

 

I was put into it cause i was shy and my parents thought it would help. Now, just like Rob, its apart of my life. It has given so much more to me than i have put into it and i love it.

 

Well if you talk as much as you post Chazz, then you certainly aint shy! lol

 

Well i dont know if im going to take that as an insult or not but oh well.
*LOL*

I dont talk as much as i post.

Chazz

 

LOL gotta admit that was good. Thank God this isn't voice chat then Chazz, you'd still be working on your first post LOL j/k

I am the same though sometimes LOL

Rob