Id never really thought about this

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Anjelica, May 29, 2018.

  1. Anjelica

    Anjelica Banned Banned

    Injuries, particularly concussions and their consequences. Cat Zingano has been forced to take long offs because of it. I had wondered why she went so long between fights. Bethe Correia is having to take time off due to concussions suffered in her fights with Marion and Holly.

    The brain can repair itself but it takes a minimum of six months with no contact, so im told. If anyone has knowledge of TBI please share.

    Sorry for Cat, she has talent. TBI can wreck a career for sure.
  2. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Once you lose neurons, but for rare exceptions, they're lost. Unfortunately there's a lot of long term damage that can result from even minor brain injuries.
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    The brain doesn't repair itself, but if you get another conclusion within 6 months it gets so much worse.
  4. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    They suck, a lot.

    Healing from a brain injury isn't the same as healing from something like a broken bone or a cut. The tissue doesn't just repair itself and you're back to new. As @philosoraptor mentioned, minor brain injuries can accumulate over time into a serious issue. Look into the controversy with the NFL over them hiding this information from players. If you get injured badly enough where cognitive and physical functions are impaired (even to a minor degree), the "healing" of your brain to regain those functions are more your brain rewiring neural pathways than fixing the damaged tissue to resume activity.

    I would have to dig it up, but there were some studies I had looked over when I was suffering from my own TBI showing people who were using creatine and fish oil supplements, as well as maintaining a good level of hydration, showed less susceptibility to receiving brain injuries from blunt force contact.

    TBIs are a difficult subject in martial arts, even when removing combat sports from the equation. If you regularly spar and get hit in the head, you're getting tiny little brain injuries and after years of it, they might come back to haunt you. But you can't learn to fight effectively without getting hit either!
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  5. Monkey_Magic

    Monkey_Magic Well-Known Member

    It’s probably worse than many martial artists would like to admit.

    If soccer can damage brain health, who know how much worse damage martial arts could do? There’s emerging evidence that professional soccer players have an unusually high incidence of dementia, likely caused by the accumulation of micro trauma from years of heading a ball. This doesn’t bode well for harder contact sports like MMA or kickboxing ...
  6. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    MMA likes to boast its less dangerous than boxing, and there's some valid reasons behind the argument, but really it hasn't been around long enough to know. Look at a video of Liddel now and its hard to argue mma doesn't have some hefty risks involved. The severe weight cutting, particularly the reliance on dehydration, makes the risks much worse too.
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  7. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    It is hard to know how many deaths have occurred due to MMA bouts. In the early days it was very poorly regulated and so poorly documented.

    In the 80's I saw a TV news piece about a man from the UK who was killed in a bout. His opponent got him in the mount and struck him in the head three times with open hand slaps. He failed to lift his head off the floor after the second slap. He never regained consciousness. When standing and striking a lot of the energy of a strike to the head is redirected by moving the head. when your head is in contact with the floor it cant move. It is one of the things I hammer into my students - if you are on the floor you keep your head off the ground like you life depends on it - because it might.
  8. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    TBI can manifest itself as pain and tension in other parts of the body too. I'm working with one patient at the moment who has a tremendous amount of referred low back and hip pain, which we have traced back to a concussion he sustained over 2 years ago (no other injuries or trauma since). So TBI isn't limited to just the memory and emotional disturbance effects most people think of.
    axelb likes this.
  9. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    It's my biggest fear. Later in life I might not be he same level of mental health that I'm at now. I can live with bad joints and arthritis if it comes to it, but I really fear dementia and parkinsons.
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  10. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    And that's why you have my respect. You have that fear but you step into the Octagon anyway. I'll admit I was always too scared to fight in MMA mostly because of my ego. You're a better man than many of us and we support you dude. :)
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  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    I sort of disagree climbing into the cage to overcome fear of losing etc I get and I agree he is a better man than me for doing that, but knowing the inherent risks someone is putting themselves under and still doing it, is that a bit silly, I mean risking mental health for what's not even a good pay check these days is it worth it?

    A serious question I know everything we do has risks but the more we find out about head trauma the less appealing a career in mma or boxing seems
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  12. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    It's one of the reasons I decided against doing a striking art (that and the possibility of retinal detachment). I also wonder how much trauma is caused by throws in Judo etc that rattle the head around.
  13. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Say whaaat? You saw a news piece about MMA in the 80's? Before NHB and Vale Tudo were even really a widespread thing? What event was this? What was the UK fighters name?

    And your point about the head moving with a strike being good is the opposite of what everyone else says. You want the head to move with the strike because that's what shakes the brain around for the KO. If the head is braced you can cause more localised surface or structural trauma (perhaps) but the brain will shake less.
    That's not to say having your head pinned to the ground and hit is not a bad thing but but lifting it up as it's being hit just creates more space for it to rebound into.
    Moving your head with a punch is not the same thing as having your head moved by a punch.
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  14. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    It's also mixed in with my ptsd stuff but is related to my head injuries, I unconsciously tighten my shoulders/traps/neck so much that I've had to go to physical therapy multiple time to help fix it. If I don't keep up with certain stretches and contractions of the muscles to correct what it does to my posture, it leaves me with crippling tension headaches. They can be so bad I can't function and am basically bed ridden for a few hours. They also contribute to the occasional migraine, which are more frequent if I'm not constantly addressing the issue.

    I don't know if this is a common thing for everyone who has received a TBI. I've gotten two significant ones, one of them being from an IED blast which is a whole different type of TBI, but it can really suck sometimes.

    Sometimes there's just not enough Crisco.
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  15. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Well it's a good point. I suppose you'd have to know "why" I'm fighting.

    If I didn't have martial arts I would be going down a very VERY different path. I owe my life to training, perhaps literally.

    I fight because I find it terrifying, and the challenge for me personally is unique and as holy Christ cliché as it is, it tells me something about myself. Something different every time. I also want to own a reputable MMA gym one day. Training world class fighters. I want too be able to look back on my career and show that I did it too to some level.

    Cheers man. You should imagine your ego if you win though ;)
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  16. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    You know, if I didn't have to be responsible for myself and a few others, and had enough money to never worry about finances, I would probably already be getting back into martial arts. I like fighting, whether it's martial arts or actual life/death combat related. As bad as it probably sounds I like violence. Martial arts, and later the military , helped me find the right contexts in life where that side of me is not self destructive or hurting others. This was important because I'm a very aggressive person. Ever since I've gotten back up on my feet from my own injuries I've really felt lost and still continue to adjust my mindset to feel like I am working towards something with purpose. All of my adult life up until I got injured revolved around training to fight in a military sense, and learning martial arts with the ambition to compete. I got cut a little short on the latter goal, at least as far as striking martial arts are concerned.

    The injuries I've sustained in muh brain come from fighting, both in life/death situations and martial arts. I don't feel regret or pity myself over the lot that was handed to me. Most of the time I just reframe depression or sadness I feel from being what I consider behind my peers in life development, or a symptom of my ptsd, as just another fight to get through, and that comes from martial arts. It's literally the reason I'm not suicidal, because if I killed myself I feel like I've given up and lost the fight (I do not apply this personal logic to other people).

    I feel like martial arts is worth the risk, and you can certainly take steps to lessen the potential for serious injury. That often doesn't lay in the hands of the fighter, but the coaches and people they surround themselves with. Find people that want to look out for you and your health as well as your ambition and you'll do fine. Also get your hands into something else to diversify your financial goals, just in case something happens ya' know. Fun fact: the more intelligent you are (which can partly be developed through learning stuff as you're developing pathways in the brain or something like that), the easier it is to recover from brain injuries and the more thorough the recovery can potentially be. So learn business practices and start your own clothing or something xD.

    The depth of the human spirit to meet diversity and overcome it isn't remembered by people who play it safe, but by the people who challenge themselves and put themselves in volatile situations. Martial arts are one of the avenues in which this is represented. Not everybody makes it out unscathed, but it's more than a worthy pursuit. Keep on keeping on man.
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  17. Anjelica

    Anjelica Banned Banned

    Im glad I saw this interview with Cat because it opened my eyes to something. Not just brain injury but the UFC rules, the time limits for reporting injuries or perceived injury, Cat learned the hard way don't try to be a hero who grins and bears it.
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  18. Anjelica

    Anjelica Banned Banned

    Cat mentioned how those slaps to the ears from Juliana Pena agrevated her brain trauma so I understand what you're saying.
  19. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Yep given the two I'd choose the lesser of two evils... Which incidentally also prohibits the head getting underhooked for choking and cross facing.

    If I'm in bottom mount getting punched (which has happened multiple times) then the last thing I do is start lifting my head so my opponent/partner can start playing pong with it.

    The head rebounding off the canvas is the most injurious element of being struck while in mount. So teaching something that increases that likelihood is bad coaching, whether for ring or street.
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  20. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Can't remember which JRE ep it was but they did go into length about dehydration to lose weight includes loss of brain fluid which takes 72hrs at least to refill but fighters are in within 24.
    (I think it was the Novinski aka Golden Snitch ep)

    I also remember in the 90s there was a TV show called Tomorrows World and back then they found head gear caused more damage to the head and neck than without. Hence why I dont wear headgear (also I see better).

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